Most of the time in comics he does use his civilian resources to help out gotham? He usually realizes pretty early on that gotham needs Bruce Wayne and Batman- I mean I don't know which version of Bruce the author is using but this appears to be the mainline Bruce who was literally called a commie because of what he does (not that I think he is but gives perspective)
Mainline Bruce absolutely helps Gotham as Brucie Wayne, no doubt about that! I'll explore that more in future chapters, but what I wanted to come across is the fact that despite the bats' dedication and vast resources, there are bound to be cracks in the system and unfortunately not everyone can get the help that they need at the right time. Gotham is a big city after all! Moreover, this is through the perspective of Dick, who is bound to be very self-critical about what they've accomplished. But thank u for the comment, I'll keep it in mind when detailing later on how mainline and absolute Bruce think of each other >:3
LOL Yeah your fine! I appreciate getting a glimpse into your thought process! But yeah no worries I just saw a misconception and wanted to inform. I didn't know where you were going with this, and didn't know which canon you were drawing from besides knowing it was probably comic canon (it's just that there are so many Bruces that fall under comic canon and could be called mainline), just that current mainline does basically try to help in every moment of every identity cgvhbn And you did a good job of conveying how even with that and with their vast pool they miss things and its incredibly frustrating for the characters! Can't wait to see how Absolute Bruce challenges them!
It depends don't it? Some of these batmen are consumed by the batman persona having no time for anything else, others use the playboy identity to deflect attention. It would be interesting to see what he'd suggest doing with wealth since he was raised on the lower end of the wealth totem pole, and also because his social worker mom (vice mayor/mayor candidate?) raised him in the absolute timeline so maybe he incorporates her ideas?
Absolutely! Yeah I just wanted to throw in "hey he does usually get around to realizing Bruce Wayne is neccessary" cause I do tend to see people forget that- but it depends on timeline and comic canon! And also how Bruce is doing mentally ccvgbh if he's doing shit he'll totally pull a batman murderer where, like you said, he let the mask consume him. Though hopefully mainline learned his lesson from Batman Murderer (depends on the writer of course or if the writer even realizes that story has already happened and Bruce has already learned his lesson there.) And as you said new perspectives! Which is fun to explore- there are some things I've seen where I'm like "look Bruce is born a billionaire. He's not gonna have the same understanding of what is neccessary to help gotham that we do. His politics won't be perfect and stuff even if he does have good intentions." The traveling around the world, his work as batman, his social network does a lot to help- but he's always gonna be learning!
Comrade (Guest)
on Chapter 1
Fri 14
Nov 202510:32AM UTC
Meh, mainline comics in general feel like slop to me, they never progress, that's why I like the new absolute line. You know what, mainline bats is bullshit, they're trying to convince us that there's ethical billionaires, even actual superpowers are more believable than that. Like how his company is somehow the only morally pure one in all of Gotham, or how his money is ethically made despite him being a billionaire, in Gotham of all places. That's why I love the absolute run, it's more reasonable despite all the crazy shit that's happening in it, somehow even more reasonable than the previous slop they used to throw in the comics like how Gotham is a magically cursed city and that's why it'll never improve. They show how the billionaire class is dooming us to authoritarianism, God Bless Absolute Batman in his journey to demolishing the upper class.
I'm not even gonna bother with how Batman could do more with his Bruce Wayne identity, it's just not possible for him because he's a mentally ill man, that's why he's wearing a bat cosplay and beating the shit out of criminals LOL or not going to therapy to deal with his emotions due to his parents murder. Imo it would be interesting to a see a bruce wayne comic where he fixes the cities issues through his civvie identity, like not batman but I know I'm a minority in that and that it'd not be fun for most people to read, most people want Batman fighting crime, which is fine. My rant aside, it's also why I like the newer stuff, like the DCU reboot, the absolute comics, the penguin TV show, they're just more reasonable for the times we live in, it's not 2010 anymore.
My guy I'm gonna be fr coming here and telling me a series I clearly like is slop doesn't do well in getting me to engage with you in good faith. I'm still going to try, but I will be fr this is the only response I'm sending to you if you keep this attitude.
So you are right about how the ethical billionaire is a myth, but bluntly I've never engaged with it as if it's real. It's a convention of the genre- namely- "powerful people trying to do good things." Superhero narratives can be about the underdog, but DC tends to focus on the power fantasy of powerful people doing the right thing. They still have struggles, which I will get into, but that's the main premise. It varies in realism, and sometimes it's incorporation of realism in regards to working *with* its power fantasy has problems, but that depends on writer, what they are going for etc. So, as you pointed out, yes Batman is just as mythical as superman. But no one who I see stating that batman as their favorite character is comparing him to real life billionaires- instead usually the cite that they like how he is a human with no powers doing his best. Its an illusion because you can argue his fantasy power is his money, but that is still the case. That's also why he's often the exception billionaire in his comics.
As for why DC seems so pro system it's because it's incredibly idealistic. Idealism is the main appeal of DC for me, and while there are ways to be idealistic without being pro system (I would argue the absolute series is an example of this and I am glad you are enjoying them, I'm having a blast too)- DC frequently falls into the trap of idealism and optimism being pro system. Not always and there are plenty of comics in DC that escape this trap- but also many who do, and because Bruce's "superpower" is something people in real life have and instead the fantasy is the nature of who has this "superpower" is changed- which can make it easier to fall into the trap of pro system. You either get Bruce being the exception or you get the false idea that actually the system is good and billionaires are good. Hard thing to juggle. Don't blame you for not personally being able to engage with it.
And continuing I don't know how much you have read but Bruce does do stuff to help gotham. It's not the main focus of his stories no, it's more frequently one off lines or little moments but they are there a part of canon, supported by canon. I can name instances that date back as far as pre crisis where he had charities to help orphanages. And since then expanding to offering henchmen jobs at wayne industries so they don't have to turn to crime, social service programs that have people in mainline calling him a commie. He's not but again. Perspective on what he's canonically doing. None of this is the focus of his stories, and it's fair to want to see canon explore that more. All that is to say, you seem to want something very different from what canon is trying to be, and you seem to be calling it slop for not being what you personally prefer.
To end my own huge rant off, sorry for getting lengthy but I wanted to cover each point you made and for the final point- please don't disparage mentally ill people like that? Bruce's problems having to do with class are because of his social status, not because he is mentally ill. Saying "it's impossible for him to do better because he's mentally ill" really made it difficult to engage with you in good will. I'm mentally ill. I have OCD. That hurts dude. For me batman is an important character who I love to see to try and help people because I am seeing someone going through similar struggles to what I go through (paranoia) and while I like seeing him struggle at it, I like seeing him succeed as well. It's why the idealism of DC draws me in. To make it a huge point of how much he struggles with his illness and how he is constantly trying to be better and trying to help.
It's fair if you don't like him, but I'd figured I would respond because like. You responded to me, so I hope you are willing to try and understand why I like him, even if he will never be for you.
Comrade (Guest)
on Chapter 1
Sun 16
Nov 202503:56AM UTC
My guy I'm gonna be fr coming here and telling me a series I clearly like is slop doesn't do well in getting me to engage with you in good faith. I'm still going to try, but I will be fr this is the only response I'm sending to you if you keep this attitude.
I can't help it if you want to misinterpret my words and turn them into negative intent, and I said this just to be clear "mainline comics in general". If you want twist that into me saying all comics are dogshit, go ahead, but that just making it harder to engage with you because it feels like you'll frame everything I've posted in a negative manner.
We can agree to disagree. In my eyes there's a lack of overall consistent direction for these comics, their universes and characters in general, and the canon itself is pretty hazy since there's some sort of crisis happening every year. They're too long running and stagnant, it's why they had to come out with the absolute run in the first place, less decades of hazy canon, and more fresh takes.
The same thing happened with the DCEU, they just pumped out mid movies in general with a few successes and its why it got rebooted, the numbers speak for themselves. It's cool that you like these comics, but for the average fan, they get repetitive and are getting tired of it, and it's also why things like the new DCU and the absolute line are getting massive amounts of support from the fans & even new people, because it's a fresh interesting take.
So you are right about how the ethical billionaire is a myth, but bluntly I've never engaged with it as if it's real. It's a convention of the genre- namely- "powerful people trying to do good things." Superhero narratives can be about the underdog, but DC tends to focus on the power fantasy of powerful people doing the right thing. They still have struggles, which I will get into, but that's the main premise. It varies in realism, and sometimes it's incorporation of realism in regards to working *with* its power fantasy has problems, but that depends on writer, what they are going for etc. So, as you pointed out, yes Batman is just as mythical as superman. But no one who I see stating that batman as their favorite character is comparing him to real life billionaires- instead usually the cite that they like how he is a human with no powers doing his best. Its an illusion because you can argue his fantasy power is his money, but that is still the case. That's also why he's often the exception billionaire in his comics.
That's fair.
As for why DC seems so pro system it's because it's incredibly idealistic. Idealism is the main appeal of DC for me, and while there are ways to be idealistic without being pro system (I would argue the absolute series is an example of this and I am glad you are enjoying them, I'm having a blast too)- DC frequently falls into the trap of idealism and optimism being pro system. Not always and there are plenty of comics in DC that escape this trap- but also many who do, and because Bruce's "superpower" is something people in real life have and instead the fantasy is the nature of who has this "superpower" is changed- which can make it easier to fall into the trap of pro system. You either get Bruce being the exception or you get the false idea that actually the system is good and billionaires are good. Hard thing to juggle. Don't blame you for not personally being able to engage with it.
Fair enough. But I'm not american, it's why I don't necessarily like the pro system angle. Even a reformed america would still be imperialist, it'd still harm my relatives, and bomb my cousins. And these billionaires are furthering the descent into authoritarianism, they're openly eroding democracy, it's why they openly say it irl, and why they want a technocracy or network states. Anyways It's why I like the absolute line because it has the billionaire class as the opponent, re-frames the authoritarians in a more modern take. I also liked that we still had green arrow try to be a good person, but it's unfortunate that he got taken out by the other ones who weren't gonna allow him to be kind to the proletariat. Maybe I'm over-reading it, or overthinking it, but that's my general thought process.
And continuing I don't know how much you have read but Bruce does do stuff to help gotham. It's not the main focus of his stories no, it's more frequently one off lines or little moments but they are there a part of canon, supported by canon. I can name instances that date back as far as pre crisis where he had charities to help orphanages. And since then expanding to offering henchmen jobs at wayne industries so they don't have to turn to crime, social service programs that have people in mainline calling him a commie. He's not but again. Perspective on what he's canonically doing. None of this is the focus of his stories, and it's fair to want to see canon explore that more. All that is to say, you seem to want something very different from what canon is trying to be, and you seem to be calling it slop for not being what you personally prefer.
Look I didn't say he doesn't help Gotham, I'm saying why he can't help more, it's because of his need to be Batman and personally fight crime. It's why he in some cases is against other heroes patrolling Gotham or generally fighting crime there without his approval, because Batman is his coping mechanism. In my opinion just to be clear, I think he can do more good being bruce wayne full time. I'm calling it slop because it's stagnant and refusing to progress, because it's too long running and again stuck in the status quo, what I personally would enjoy more is just what I'd personally like to see explored, but even if it's not explored I still enjoy other things if it's not stagnant, like the absolute line, Bruce wayne being batman beating up criminals.
To end my own huge rant off, sorry for getting lengthy but I wanted to cover each point you made and for the final point- please don't disparage mentally ill people like that? Bruce's problems having to do with class are because of his social status, not because he is mentally ill. Saying "it's impossible for him to do better because he's mentally ill" really made it difficult to engage with you in good will. I'm mentally ill. I have OCD. That hurts dude. For me batman is an important character who I love to see to try and help people because I am seeing someone going through similar struggles to what I go through (paranoia) and while I like seeing him struggle at it, I like seeing him succeed as well. It's why the idealism of DC draws me in. To make it a huge point of how much he struggles with his illness and how he is constantly trying to be better and trying to help.
He clearly has severe issues because he can't function without his Batman persona, I feel like that's a common theme in most batman stories. I've personally had to work through my PTSD over me almost dying and maybe it's not same, but don't take it as me shitting on mental health in general. I'm saying it's impossible for him to do more, because being Batman is his outlet. I also like seeing him succeed, but the way he's batman and the way it's primarily been written (at least what I've seen) is that he's been doing in a self destructive way, and it's why his personal relationships suffer sans Alfred (mostly). Now this Batman could be much older and maybe he's worked through many of those issues, but we don't know yet, we haven't encountered him, and we've only seen bits and pieces. I'm just writing in a general manner.
It's fair if you don't like him, but I'd figured I would respond because like. You responded to me, so I hope you are willing to try and understand why I like him, even if he will never be for you.
I don't dislike Batman, I just like Bruce Wayne more. But I'll name a few things I like about Batman. Batman is good because he never kills, he's not afraid to go after corrupt people (politicians and elites included), and most importantly he pays for everything he manages to break (keeping the damage contained).
Anyways I think it's best to end it here, I don't feel like it's a positive discussion.
I agree it's best to end it here but I did want to thank you for taking me in good faith and sharing your perspective and thoughts before ending it. I appreciate it.
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