OTW Legal’s International Advocacy and You!

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2018-06-08 16:24:53 UTC

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OTW Legal has been busy working on three advocacy projects around the world--in Canada, Australia, and the European Union. We want to thank you for your help in Canada, and let you know what’s happening and what you can do to help in Australia and the European Union.

Canada

Thanks to the many amazing stories we received from Canadian fans, we submitted a comment to the Canadian Parliament’s copyright law review about the power and benefit of laws that allow and promote transformative works. You can find our submission here.

Australia

Now we’re working on a submission for Australia! The Australian government is evaluating Australian copyright law and is considering expanding fair dealing provisions or adopting a fair use standard. OTW Legal is writing in support of these changes and would love your help. If you’re Australian and have expressed yourself, gained skills, been part of creative communities, or otherwise experienced the benefits of being able to create transformative works that would benefit from flexibility in Australian copyright law, we’d love to hear your stories. Please send them by June 25 by using our contact form. (Feel free to use a pseudonym if you don't want us to share your personally identifying information.)

European Union

OTW Legal and our allies have been active in fighting on fan-unfriendly legal proposals in the EU. Since these proposals were introduced in 2016, OTW Legal has submitted comments opposing them and has joined in calls for action against them. We’ve managed to hold them off so far and encourage some revisions, but a key vote will be happening in the European Parliament’s JURI committee on 20/21 June that could have a significant impact on the Internet and fan sites. In particular, two provisions of the current proposal would be bad for fans. Article 11 would impose a "link tax" that would make it more expensive for many websites to operate, and Article 13 would impose mandatory content-filtering requirements on websites that host user-generated content. These provisions have been hotly debated and revised a bit since the last time we reported on them. (For more on recent revisions and debates, see these discussions by the Electronic Frontier Foundation and the Hogan Lovells Firm) But despite revisions, they’re still bad deals for fans. Importantly, they don’t preserve the "safe harbors" that websites rely on to operate, and they don’t include user-generated content exceptions.

Without safeguards for user-generated content, Article 13 would require your favourite websites to implement systems that monitor user-generated content and automatically remove any content that could potentially infringe upon copyright, giving publishing giants the power to block your online expression. Sites like YouTube, Tumblr, GitHub, Soundcloud, etc., could be required to block the upload of content based on whether it has been "identified" by big corporations, rather than based on its legality. The law is still being debated, and it is difficult to predict how it would impact the OTW’s projects, including the Archive of Our Own, if it is passed. Regardless of how this vote comes out, the OTW will work as hard as we can to keep the Internet fan-friendly. But we need your help. The most effective thing you can do right now is contact your Member of European Parliament. You can use one of these tools to e-mail your MEP or call your MEP to tell them that having user-generated content on the internet is important to you.

Here’s what you can tell them: Without safe harbors for user-generated content, Article 13 of the Copyright Directive would stifle free expression on the Internet. We don’t want mandatory filtering. Algorithms don’t understand limitations and exceptions to copyright like parody, public interest exceptions, fair use, or fair dealing, and we don’t want our non-infringing videos, website posts and art blocked because of a biased algorithm created by big corporations. We want the law to protect user-generated works, not harm them.

OTW Legal will keep fighting for fan-friendly laws!

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alyyks Fri 08 Jun 2018 04:41PM UTC

Email sent to my European rep, thanks for the information and links.

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AshesStarsAndRedStringsOfFate Fri 08 Jun 2018 05:54PM UTC

If Article 13 IS passed (big 'if' with you guys fighting so hard), would it only effect people in the EU, or would it effect other countries, such as the United States? Just curious.
Thank you so much for all you guys do for us! I'm rooting for you guys and your hard work!
~Ash

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1. Fantine_Black Mon 11 Jun 2018 09:18AM UTC
  
  Perhaps not technically (I have no idea!), which you are of course referring to. :) (Can anyone chime in?)
  Still, ultimately, it affects every fan. On fanfiction.net, which records where my readers come from, a majority seems to be from the US. I don't know if that is true on AO3, of course, and everyone is very welcome to argue that the loss of my contributions is no great loss to fandom as a whole (I hope you don't, but still). Yet I'd very much hope to keep uploading and interacting with all of you here! I sometimes read progressive media in my country, that are just now beginning to say things like "Um... perhaps gender is a scale... Perhaps representation matters... Perhaps identifying with people other than cishet, white, healthy, ablebodied men isn't quite as hard as we thought", and I'm like - really? Really. Ao3 taught me that a decade ago. So I want my fic, and I want to write my fic, and some people have even been kind enough to tell me to want to read my fic. For the EU to make that harder - well, I'm unpleasantly surprised. So I wrote in, and will thank everyone who will too. You're a big part of my life.
  
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2. Erin (Guest) Wed 04 Jul 2018 10:10AM UTC
  
  Old post, but I wanted to say something;
  It's not too big of an if, we fought for the whole Free Internet thing happening in the US and we all saw how that went. We lost. It is very much possible to lose this one too, and that's a scary thought.
  It wouldn't necessarily affect people outside of EU significantly, but think of it like this; this law passing could mean that some great EU residing creators whose content you enjoy will now be restricted by the law on what they can create. That means less content for you. Even if the majority of users are from the US, there's still a very big chance you could be missing out on something great just because that genius can't express themselves due to this stupid law.
  If this law passes, a lot of EU creators will feel uncomfortable posting the content they used to be able to enjoy freely. You might be missing out on some awesome fanfiction or fanart.
  Isn't that insanely unfair, even if we're not thinking about how it affects people outside of EU/you? People are being restricted. Stopped from being able to create and enjoy the things they love. Is that not worth fighting against all on it's own, just because it doesn't necessarily affect you?
  Many Europeans fought for the Free Internet, even if that failed, I think it'd be only fair for the US folks to help those who helped them - isn't that what US has always been on about anyway? (with varying degrees of success, I'm aware)
  
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3. 1. AshesStarsAndRedStringsOfFate Wed 04 Jul 2018 11:14PM UTC
    
    Yeah... We all know how that turned out... Fingers crossed though! Maybe Europe will have more sense than the US.
    I just didn't understand the full extent of the proposed laws at the time I posted my original comment. I have since done a ton of research and figured out the whole (confusing) wording. Thank you for replying, though: I didn't mean to sound rude or insensitive in my original comment. Of COURSE the loss of European creators would be devastating; many of the best people I have met on this site have been from EU countries. This site is one of my few remaining safe spaces in my life, and any intrusion into it in any way, even if it doesn't effect me directly, will still greatly upset that feeling of safety. No one wants to lose anyone in this community because of some stupid law that they have little to no control over.
    And of course that's unfair. I never meant to seem like I didn't care about anyone's rights being violated. Freedom of all types is definitely worth fighting for, even if it's not your own.
    Good luck to all the European creators in the coming days. I know the vote's almost over with, and that is a scary thought. We're all with you!
    (As for the US being for freedom: yeah, that hasn't worked out too well in the past, but hey, those of us who realize that are trying extra hard to live up to those ideals. Again, sorry for seeming rude or uncaring in my previous comment.)
    ~Ash
    
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Unicron Sat 09 Jun 2018 12:07AM UTC

I've already sent emails to literally all the MEPs (American so I don't have one of my own.) Hopefully the vote ends up against it so we can end the fight there, but if not good luck since this would be a bitch to the site for sure (even though I guess having character names in and of itself wouldn't harm it and you guys would probably implement something like chalk and wire to crosscheck for plagiarism).
That being said with the potential like, autoscripts in the case of AO3 if say, something were to be submitted that got denied by a bot could we submit an appeal for like, a mod to check the fair use or lack there of of the content? I would be more than happy to contribute as a mod if that were the case moving forward

Last Edited Sat 09 Jun 2018 06:16AM UTC

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1. Snowgrouse Sat 09 Jun 2018 09:21AM UTC
  
  It's probably way too early to say anything about how it'd really be implemented, but I expect it wouldn't be Ao3 doing the identification of supposedly infringing works, but that it'd be done by some external service (like the ones that check for copyrighted music on, say, YouTube and Tumblr). It's all pretty complicated, so even identifying/defining what's fair use and what's not would be a big obstacle to anyone trying to censor content, text-based stuff in particular. You only have to look at places like Etsy and Zazzle to see how people circumvent copyright all the time and how difficult it is for the copyright holders to control fan-made products. Everything's very much hypothetical at the moment, really.
  
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2. 1. Unicron Sat 09 Jun 2018 06:05PM UTC
    
    That's so true. My personal favorite is how the Transformers fandom, to get around copyrights on the Autobot and Decepticon insignias draw hearts in place of them on characters. It is such a happy solution
    
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audiaphilios Sat 09 Jun 2018 02:54AM UTC

<3

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Raberba girl (Raberba_girl) Sat 09 Jun 2018 06:06AM UTC

Huge thanks to OTW Legal for all their hard work!

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The_Azkaban_Dreamer Sat 09 Jun 2018 09:07PM UTC

As a fanfiction writer, this is very worrying for me. I hope A03 continues to fight for fans.

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Malle1516 Sun 10 Jun 2018 01:25PM UTC

I live in europe (denmark) and if this whole eu thing is true then why haven't I heard about it in my country? If I search this up in my own language nothing comes up.

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1. alrun Sun 10 Jun 2018 09:10PM UTC
  
  (Not an Ao3 staffer/volunteer. Replying in Danish, with links, but the gist of it is that it has been debated in Denmark, but mainly in specialist / political forums, as far as I know.)
  Her er den danske version af "Kommissionens forslag om ophavsret på det digitale indre marked":
  https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/DA/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:52016PC0593&from=EN
  Og her er de høringssvar, der kom ind, da Kulturministeriet sendte direktivet til høring hos danske interessenter i nov 2016:
  http://www.ft.dk/samling/20161/almdel/KUU/spm/35/svar/1356743/index.htm
  Og endelig er her en nyere (marts '18) artikel fra Altinget.dk, der har kritiske kommentarer til direktivet fra danske forskere:
  https://www.altinget.dk/digital/artikel/forskere-det-aabne-internet-boer-ikke-ofres-paa-ophavsrettens-alter
  
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2. 1. Malle1516 Sun 10 Jun 2018 09:32PM UTC
    
    It still doesn't make sense that something so important doesn't get talked about. And there's people in other countries that says they're never heard about it either. (France as an example and other countries but I don't really remember them)
    Btw the reason I didn't talk about articles you linked me is because I don't understand what it says at all, they're using complicated words lol
    
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  2. 1. Malle1516 Sun 10 Jun 2018 09:37PM UTC
      
      But I e-mailed my MEP just in case anyway
      
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    2. alrun Sun 10 Jun 2018 09:53PM UTC
      
      Sure, it doesn't make sense that it's not been debated more widely; something that relatively important should have been. But to some extent it depends on where you get your news from - the news article that I linked to from Altinget is part of a series of news items and opinions pieces on the digital single market, including comments from major political parties and industry stakeholders. There have been smaller pieces in other news outlets (e.g. Politiken), but mainly focusing on the perceived positive impact ("More protection of artists' rights!"), not the problematic aspects, and many of them were at the time of the first draft (late 1016 / early 2017). So it has been talked about, but you may not have noticed it if you don't actively follow political news sites, and you've had to search for the critical voices.
      And brilliant that you have emailed your MEP :)
      
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    3. 1. Malle1516 Mon 11 Jun 2018 08:47PM UTC
        
        So my MEP answered me and said that she understood my concerns and is against it as well. That's always something
        
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    4. elisa_anya Sat 23 Jun 2018 04:54PM UTC
      
      It isn't really uncommon for politicians to do shit without us knowing though, right?
      
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    5. 1. Malle1516 Sat 23 Jun 2018 04:57PM UTC
        
        Well, I dunno if it's like that in my country. But my MEP has made posts about it now on her facebook page so yeah
        
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3. varevare (varebanos) Sun 17 Jun 2018 04:47PM UTC
  
  It's because an American YouTuber made up his own dramatic interpretation of the law for views.
  
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4. 1. Malle1516 Sun 17 Jun 2018 05:04PM UTC
    
    That's what I thought too, but Philip Defranco made a video on it and came up with sources.
    
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  2. 1. varevare (varebanos) Sun 17 Jun 2018 06:46PM UTC
      
      The panicking is still very out of proportion. Directives aren't directly applicable in any country, and each member state needs to adapt its laws to the objectives presented by the Directive, so the directive isn't really closing anything. It's very different from regulations like the data protection one.
      The concern is about how many sites will implement automatic filtering and how intensive said filtering will be, when the directive doesn't even hint at it. It only says it should be proportionate, and mentions automatic filtering as one of the possible measures.
      
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    2. 1. Malle1516 Sun 17 Jun 2018 06:57PM UTC
        
        Alright, thanks for the answer. I believe you. (Sorry for having nothing else to say)
        
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      2. varevare (varebanos) Sun 17 Jun 2018 07:07PM UTC
        
        No worries, ty!
        
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KatsueFox Mon 11 Jun 2018 01:17AM UTC

A big thank-you, OTW, for sharing this, links included! Could I also draw attention to further online resources for protesting against Article 13 (one of which also addresses Article 11)?
There are two petitions on change.org:
https://www.change.org/p/stop-censorship-in-europe
https://www.change.org/p/axel-voss-save-the-internet-reject-article-13-and-11
The phrasing of these isn't necessarily ideal, but the more we can make ourselves heard, the better.

Last Edited Mon 11 Jun 2018 01:37AM UTC

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MelMey Mon 11 Jun 2018 06:59AM UTC

Form someone who researched political campaigns - when contacting a politician via such a website add personal reasons to the text already given. And it is even better to write to your personal MEP via their personal office (easy to google) or to call their local office in your home country.
Für die deutschen Nutzer von AO3 gibt es neben der oben aufgeführten Möglichkeit die Abgeordneten zu kontaktieren noch den folgenden Weg - https://www.abgeordnetenwatch.de/eu/ausschuesse/ausschuss-fur-burgerliche-freiheiten-justiz-und-inneres.
Am besten beide Wege nutzen. Der Vorteil von Abgeordnetenwatch ist, dass die Fragen dort publiziert werden und somit sowohl die Fragen als auch die Antworten der Politiker öffentlich sichtbar sind und bleiben.
Und auch hier ist es wichtig eine personalisierten Text zu schreiben. Der kann gerne allgemeine Teile enthalten, aber je persönlichen desto eher nehmen Politiker das wahr. Oder auch einfach mal unter der Liste aller EU Abgeordneten schauen, wer in deinem Wahlkreis ist. Lokaler Bezug erhöht die Wahrnehmung.

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1. tahanrien Tue 12 Jun 2018 07:30PM UTC
  
  Außerdem sortiert AW rigoros aus, wenn etwas als Kampagne gesehen wird, davon sind wir aber wahrscheinlich weit entfernt... Aber definitiv was eigenes formulieren.
  Allerdings antworten viele auch nicht auf AW, sondern wollen persönlich eMails haben. Wenn man Zeit hat, kann man vermutlich am besten recherchieren, wie man den jeweiligen Abgeordneten am besten erreicht (auch Facebook, Twitter, etc.), indem man guckt, wo wie schnell geantwortet wird.
  
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bunn Mon 11 Jun 2018 10:26AM UTC

I had already contacted my MEPs about Article 13, after being alerted to it by the Open Rights Group ( https://action.openrightsgroup.org/say-no-article-13s-censorship-machine ) . Both MEP's responded saying they were in favour because it would protect artists from copyright theft.
I have replied to both my MEPs who responded to express my own concerns, and will send them the last para above, too, but I am not a lawyer or a content filtering expert. I could really do with a more detailed article about potential impact of article 13 to argue this one. (I'm also in the UK, and have no idea what impact if any Brexit is likely to have, and whether my MEPs are taking anything very seriously at this stage of events.)

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1. elisa_anya Sat 23 Jun 2018 04:58PM UTC
  
  They replied? Cool. I'd tell them that fanart in its many shapes actually HELPS artists and TV shows because they are free publicity for them. For example, I started watching Brooklyn Nine Nine after seeing funny gif sets on Tumblr, from which no one was making money of. No one's making money off fanfiction either and it helps keep the fans hooked during breaks or helps get new fans interested. Annoy their asses into voting no for that dumb law!
  
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Asdf (Guest) Tue 12 Jun 2018 03:09AM UTC

I am pretty sure AO3 would be exempt from the filters because the only exemption is for non-profit websites.

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1. ProximaShining Tue 12 Jun 2018 07:10PM UTC
  
  As far as I know, there is no exemption. And it could be argued what is and isn't a non-profit website. Fanfiction websites do not sell the stories posted by users - but AO3 gets donations, fanfiction net gets money from advertising. Would they still be considered non-profit? And what about websites like Deviantart? Some users there upload their work just for fun, while other users gain money with it.
  
  Last Edited Tue 12 Jun 2018 07:30PM UTC
  
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2. 1. Unicron Wed 13 Jun 2018 05:16AM UTC
    
    It is a registered non-profit. It is non-profit because well...they don't make a profit. All the money from donations goes into the various OTW projects.
    
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  2. 1. ProximaShining Wed 13 Jun 2018 06:31AM UTC
      
      Yeah. But the way the article is worded, if a website makes any money, then filtering the content is mandatory. And donations are money too. It is not important in this case whether that website makes profit. It is not explicitly mentioned that registered non-profits are exempt, only that websites that (somehow) make money are obliged to filter. Even Wikipedia, that also relies on donations, would be required to filter.
      
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    2. 1. Unicron Wed 13 Jun 2018 06:59AM UTC
        
        I understand but the way you were talking was implying that AO3 isn't a nonprofit and I mostly just wanted to clarify that yes, it is. That doesn't save it from these laws but I felt it was important to clarify none the less
        Edit: Also whilst it wouldn't help for Spain, Portugal, France, and Italy some countries would have a nonprofit exemption. So the "good" news is if we have to geo-block we don't have to geo-block EVERYTHING in Europe
        
        Last Edited Wed 13 Jun 2018 07:35AM UTC
        
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Duval (Guest) Tue 12 Jun 2018 06:01PM UTC

These laws really scare me, I send an email to my MEP, I wonder if I will not harass him every day.
It's crazy that we have not heard about this laws before, it's important !
I am angry that they propose such laws, and the freedom of expression, they do not care?
I'm scared, how long will these laws apply, will it be immediate? Is it time to download our fanfictions, fanarts and more, favorites?
Sorry my english is probably very bad!

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Elleth Tue 12 Jun 2018 06:13PM UTC

I thought Article 11 only referred to news websites/news aggregators and is inteded to combat misleading information/"fake news"? Since the AO3 is not (in any way I can see) journalistic, how would it even be affected?

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1. ProximaShining Tue 12 Jun 2018 07:26PM UTC
  
  I have read Article 11 several times but I still don't understand how it could impose a requirement for Internet platforms to pay money to news publishers for providing links to news articles. Or how it could combat "fake news" for that matter.
  This article gives the publishers rights for the digital use of their press publications, these rights expire after 20 years. It is not mentioned in the article that someone would have to pay publishers for simply posting links to their articles. Of course I am not a lawyer, so legal talk is not my forte.
  
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Victoria (Guest) Thu 14 Jun 2018 05:20PM UTC

Without safe harbors for user-generated content, Article 13 of the Copyright Directive would stifle free expression on the Internet. We don’t want mandatory filtering. Algorithms don’t understand limitations and exceptions to copyright like parody, public interest exceptions, fair use, or fair dealing, and we don’t want our non-infringing videos, website posts and art blocked because of a biased algorithm created by big corporations. We want the law to protect user-generated works, not harm them!

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1. Unicron Sat 16 Jun 2018 02:32AM UTC
  
  The good news is the fact that there are some written in exceptions for non-profits for all but four countries involved, so AO3 is slightly less screwed than say ff.net. Only slightly since the possibility of needing to geo-block France, Spain, Portugal, and Italy at the very least is something that hopefully the website never needs to do but yeah it turns out that the people who were so set on making A03 non-profit might save the butts of fans in countries like Germany and Sweden
  
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PandaLostInTheStars Fri 15 Jun 2018 08:06PM UTC

Can anyone find french articles on this ? I'll help me convince people around me and I can't find one :/

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1. Duval (Guest) Fri 15 Jun 2018 08:22PM UTC
  
  Eh bien j'ai trouver ça : http://www.rtl.fr/actu/futur/un-projet-de-loi-europeen-vote-le-20-juin-va-t-il-changer-la-face-du-web-7793710077
  et ça : https://www.blogdumoderateur.com/loi-europeenne-copyright-web/
  En espérant que cela t'aide
  
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2. 1. PandaLostInTheStars Sat 16 Jun 2018 07:05AM UTC
    
    Merci beaucoup !
    
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MonJoh Sat 16 Jun 2018 04:08AM UTC

Thank you so much for your continued efforts! I hope Parliament takes notice of your thoughtful submission.

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OKami_hu Sat 16 Jun 2018 09:41PM UTC

Addressing the EU part: I think I saw an extensive video post about this on Tumblr, which got debunked in a few hours. What's your source for this?

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1. varevare (varebanos) Sun 17 Jun 2018 04:49PM UTC
  
  Not an EU lawyer for sure. The directive is about forcing already existing automatic filtering to be reasonable, and allow users to protest it. It's not about forcing every site to implement it without measure.
  
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2. 1. Unicron Mon 18 Jun 2018 11:57PM UTC
    
    The way I am reading it it does imply that everything needs to be filtered going into "content sharing service providers" either electrically or manually to be accepted lest the content sharing service provider fall under potential fees. That being said it has a noncommercial (or more specifically "non-for-profit purposes") exemption so it does seem like AO3 would be fine. Would you mind explaining it a touch more to me?
    
    Last Edited Tue 19 Jun 2018 12:20AM UTC
    
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  2. 1. varevare (varebanos) Tue 19 Jun 2018 12:22AM UTC
      
      Sure. Quoting the current text of the proposal's infamous article 13 and skipping irrelevant fillers:
      "[...] service providers [...] shall, in
      cooperation with rightholders, take measures to ensure the functioning of agreements
      concluded with rightholders for the use of their works [...] or to prevent the availability [...] of works [...] identified by rightholders through the cooperation with the service providers. Those measures,
      such as the use of effective content recognition technologies, shall be appropriate and
      proportionate. "
      This means:
      1 ensure agreements concluded by site + copyright owners are applied as they were agreed
      2 ensure copyright owners can point out copyright infringing content (dcma takedowns basically, which some sites still don't allow, think fics and art getting reposted to wattpad or pinterest)
      3 content recognition is one of the available, possible measures (like YouTube uses), and when used should be applied in a proportionate way. Which means respecting other people's rights, for example not blanket banning everything. Lower down it also adds that users should be allowed to argue the takedowns, which many sites don't currently allow - if you get a copyright strike on YouTube, sucks to be you!
      This does NOT mean:
      1 every content must have a previous agreement with the copyright owner
      2 automatic filtering for every site, now
      Some extra info:
      Directives aren't the same as regulations. They cannot be directly applied against any private parties. This means this is nothing like the privacy regulation: directives provide goals and requirements, but each country decides what those mean. So even if the Directive's goal were to make content sharing extremely strict within the EU, it wouldn't be able to impose mandatory filtering, since the member States must decide how to implement it.
      The directive might have objectionable content, sure, some people insist the internet shouldn't be subject to any rules and it's all a matter of opinion. But the objections raised about article 13 and automatic filtering aren't based on the actual meaning of the text.
      Edit: this was written on mobile and I didn't realize it'd be such a wall of text, rip.
      
      Last Edited Tue 19 Jun 2018 12:23AM UTC
      
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    2. 1. Unicron Tue 19 Jun 2018 12:32AM UTC
        
        Thank you so much for the reply. I can see the concern that companies may try to overblow what is "appropriate and proportionate" means which might lead to certain commercial sites going hard but you're completely right they've been doing that for years already. I would imagine the biggest concern however comes in the fact this is a directive and not a regulation-and some member states such as France has shown interest in implementing it without adding the non-for-profit exemptions.
        Honestly I am just concerned the OTW tries to stand up for all of its principles and does something stupid like not geo-block a country if it goes and closes the non-for-profit loophole and somehow hurts the archives in the process since we are how most of their donations come in after all.
        That being said you should totally consider looking into consulting with the legal team if this does pass since it seems like you have a much less "the sky is falling" approach than most fans and well that approach is going to make the Archive self destruct through over compensating. I am not even kidding you could quite possibly save the site from itself and something either self-righteous or overbearing if this passes
        
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      2. varevare (varebanos) Tue 19 Jun 2018 12:40AM UTC
        
        Of course but member States can implement very restrictive copyright laws whenever they please, as it happens, gotta keep track of it all. In any case even the toughest implementation of this directive doesn't make fair use disappear or anything of the sort.
        You're right that fans tend to panic though. Not sure the archive cares for unsolicited law commentary, but I'll try to contact them!
        :')
        
        Last Edited Tue 19 Jun 2018 12:40AM UTC
        
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        Unicron Tue 19 Jun 2018 12:58AM UTC
        
        I doubt they'd take it unsolicited, I more was thinking you contact the Legal Committee/Legal Advocacy people directly via their email since I know its head is American and thus probably doesn't fully understand EU law and could use the help.
        Plus what makes me sort of giggle is the fact the document includes, "...in specific cases it may not be proportionate to expect small and micro enterprises to apply preventive measures and that therefore in such cases these enterprises should only be expected to expeditiously remove specific unauthorised works and other subject matter upon notification by rightholders" and having no actual employees and making less than 2 million Euros a year the archive would be under that even if it wasn't non-for-profit
        
        Last Edited Tue 19 Jun 2018 12:58AM UTC
        
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        varevare (varebanos) Tue 19 Jun 2018 01:04AM UTC
        
        The directive is very clearly aimed at the type of company that's already implementing this sort of thing, YouTube and co. No one wants to squeeze money from a rock haha
        
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        Unicron Tue 19 Jun 2018 01:14AM UTC
        
        Amen to that. Honestly what makes me laugh is despite the OTW being a non-profit things like this post like, are really against common sense of maintaining non-profits. I feel like it distinctly is focused on the fanvid side of fannish works which the OTW does support, but really why worry people away from your main donation platform with fear mongering?
        It would be like if my non-profit posted stuff that affects other elements of our programs in the store we use to collect funds to do our everything. "oh well we might need to shut down...this unrelated project" the sign says while everyone finishes reading and freaks out before the dot dot dot (I work in the non-profit sector IRL and frequently roll my eyes at the Archive vs the OTW as a whole. Gosh there are so few people on the board who actually work in the sector and it is regrettable)
        
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        varevare (varebanos) Tue 19 Jun 2018 01:19AM UTC
        
        I think this arises from a legit misunderstanding of the legal effects this has. The directive is dense on its own, and everyone who finds it worth commenting on is to talk about the most negative things possible, real or imagined.
        Meaning, eh, it happens, but you're right that fearmongering does no one any good. I've seen it whenever a site updates a privacy policy and someone misreads it and thinks we're signing away our souls.
        Which is often. Panicking about legalese is normal. I'm not so familiar with the non profit side of things, though!
        
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        Unicron Tue 19 Jun 2018 02:47AM UTC
        
        I know a good deal on the non-profit side and honestly non-profits never seem to realize just how many rights they have if they keep everything nice and legal and orderly. That being said people who make non-profits rarely actually train to do that so they don't understand the best ways to go about it and maintain them.
        Thanks for the talk by the way. Have a great day!
        
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        varevare (varebanos) Tue 19 Jun 2018 03:34PM UTC
        
        Thanks, you too!
        
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varevare (varebanos) Sun 17 Jun 2018 12:14PM UTC

"Sites like YouTube, Tumblr, GitHub, Soundcloud, etc., could be required to block the upload of content based on whether it has been "identified" by big corporations, rather than based on its legality. "
Question: doesn't every site already do this? When Sony Entertainment or whoever reports a specific vid or post, they don't say "ok let's go see if a judge agrees", they take it down and that's it. I understand ao3 can act differently, but I don't see this as a big change on the internet.
Edit: hey I read the proposal and it's completely misunderstood. It's talking mostly about more rights to use copyrighted content for teaching and cultural heritage organisations. The stuff about sites filtering user content is just regulating the stuff YouTube has been doing for years automatically taking down audio, for example, and says the measures should be proportionate and that users should have a way to protest them. It does not mean, by any stretch, that sites like ao3 should filter every content that dates mention "Hogwarts or "avengers" or anything of the sort.
And EU law is my full time job, so I do know what the big words mean.

Last Edited Sun 17 Jun 2018 12:32PM UTC

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1. Anon (Guest) Wed 20 Jun 2018 06:08PM UTC
  
  I do hope you’re right. Your words have alleviated my worries quite a bit, so thank you very much <3
  
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2. Nahaerya Wed 20 Jun 2018 06:36PM UTC
  
  Thanks! The possibility of getting geoblocked is still worrisome (my country is among the four infamous ones, joy), but your reply is making me feel better.
  #article13 is trending on Twitter too, at least this issue not going to go unnoticed anymore.
  
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3. 1. varevare (varebanos) Wed 20 Jun 2018 06:52PM UTC
    
    Lmao I don't think you can even copy a single paragraph of article 13 in a single tweet, I'm happy I'm not involved in the conversation there because I'd be tearing my hair out!
    In addition I'd like to mention that geoblocking a country that won't prosecute you is a waste of time, from a practical standpoint. Google has a subsidiary in p much every European country, and if the entire eu had the same regulation it could go imposing fines. But ao3 doesn't have a subsidiary or hosts servers in France. Sure, it's accessible, but the small % of French visitors means the paycheck of the civil servants needed would be greater than anything French courts could get out of ao3. It's not YouTube. That's my opinion.
    
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  2. 1. Nahaerya Wed 20 Jun 2018 08:11PM UTC
      
      Oh no, it's mostly people being pissed as hell at the JURI. I read the whole proposal on the EU site, with additional commentary from various sites.
      There's that, too. And if I'm not mistaken (this is so not my field of expertise, I'm still blindsided) this is a directive that should then be regulated and blah into every country law system - something that could 1) get watered down and 2) take years?
      
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    2. 1. varevare (varebanos) Wed 20 Jun 2018 08:45PM UTC
        
        You're correct on both accounts! It takes a long time, and each country has a period of time to implement it. If their preexisting laws don't contradict the directive, it means no change is needed at all, too.
        And the directive is just a general direction, it's already extremely watery if you go and read it - people are panicking about potential hardcore interpretations, not the actual text in it! The directive is like "it'd be nice if you guys would regulate this in a way that would respect everyone's rights, and maybe mention this topic specifically. Or not. Up to you."
        
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      2. Nahaerya Wed 20 Jun 2018 09:21PM UTC
        
        Phew! I had to read it a bunch of times before getting the hang of it, and it still left me in the dark for the most part. It's worded in a way that - I suppose - makes sense to lawyers only.
        People are def panicking, judging from what I read. I'll just save my favorite fics on an external HD and look into a good VPN program. Better safe etc.
        Thank you again!
        
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        (64 more comments in this thread)
        
        knight7272 Thu 21 Jun 2018 01:14PM UTC
        
        the problem is how can you make copyright laws that don't hurt fair use and all the other things
        
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        varevare (varebanos) Thu 21 Jun 2018 01:15PM UTC
        
        Copyright laws already exist and fair use is part of them. Fair use wouldn't exist without copyright laws.
        
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        knight7272 Thu 21 Jun 2018 01:27PM UTC
        
        okay then how come these new laws would 'supposedly'from what i've heard online destroy fair use
        the idea in theory is sound but in practice pirates will find new ways to do what they do
        
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        varevare (varebanos) Thu 21 Jun 2018 02:49PM UTC
        
        Because people online don't always understand what they're talking about and don't always tell the truth.
        
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        knight7272 Thu 21 Jun 2018 03:05PM UTC
        
        yeah also where do you draw the line
        
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        varevare (varebanos) Thu 21 Jun 2018 03:12PM UTC
        
        You don't, you go to the source and arrive to your own conclusions instead of believing everything people say.
        
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        knight7272 Thu 21 Jun 2018 03:13PM UTC
        
        okay but i meant was how far is too far in combating piracy
        
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        varevare (varebanos) Thu 21 Jun 2018 03:15PM UTC
        
        Absolutely nothing here is about fighting piracy, you might as well be asking me about cats now.
        
        Last Edited Thu 21 Jun 2018 03:15PM UTC
        
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        knight7272 Thu 21 Jun 2018 03:19PM UTC
        
        so how much of a backlash did yesterday's juri thing create?
        
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        varevare (varebanos) Thu 21 Jun 2018 03:24PM UTC
        
        My current theories are 12yo, stroke or troll
        
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        knight7272 Thu 21 Jun 2018 03:26PM UTC
        
        12yo, stroke or troll?
        
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4. AllthefanficsAllofthem Thu 21 Jun 2018 10:01PM UTC
  
  hey sorry to bother you more with this but you seem to be the one person to actually understand what these articles mean . english's not my first language so i had hard time comprehending the articles and admittedly panicked bc my sources are from tumblr . everything you said about fanfiction makes sense (ao3 being non profit and all) but does it also apply to other forms of fan created content (fanarts etc) when its on platforms such as tumblr ? (from what i gather they won't bother taking down such content unless i misunderstood? ) . and what about article 11? (i know that's kinda irrelevant sorry ). also kind of irrelevant but would it affect sites where you can watch movies/series online ?, since i'm not sure it's quite legal anyway copyrights and all .
  
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5. 1. varevare (varebanos) Thu 21 Jun 2018 10:15PM UTC
    
    The directive does not change the limits between fair use and illicit use; it only changes the way it might be implemented. Whats your first language? I'm from Spain, so I could also translate it.
    Anyway it depends what you mean. Regarding automatic filtering? Yeah fanart can't be automatically filtered. However if people repost fanart (you know, what artists ask people NOT to do?) The directive says sites should have a way to artists to claim their ownership to take the piece down. And that the person who reposted it should have a way to protest if said take down was incorrect or abusive.
    That's for fanart artists; companies don't care about fanart, generally, because artists aren't competing directly with them, and fan content is derivative so under fair use. That doesn't change under the directive at all.
    For sites that upload movies and stuff: that's actually what the directive has a strongest impact on. For example when on YouTube people upload entire songs without permission and end up getting a lot of views and getting money from the ads. Thats illegal. They didn't make the content and shouldn't profit from it. However the laws (according to the directive) should be used proportionally and not let companies just claim copyright over small fractions.
    I hope I'm explaining well. Regarding article 11, to be honest I have not examined it so I'm reluctant to give an opinion in something I'm uninformed. However I believe it's aimed to protect the press from other companies like Google, because they reproduce their articles and get all the views for content they didnt produce. But don't take my word for it.
    
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  2. 1. AllthefanficsAllofthem Wed 27 Jun 2018 08:40PM UTC
      
      Thank you for your reply . my first language is greek unfortunately .
      thank you for clearing things up . I can see you've made this point a lot of times in the comments but i guess fans do need the comfort now .
      If it's ok to ask does "sites that upload movies etc etc " include torrent platforms ? as i see europeans don't have such easy access to all movies/series and you can't find everything on netflix.... (how do we know which sites are actually legal to watch movies ? is the movie being uploaded to online sites inherently illegal?)
      i had the very vague and abstract idea that article 11 was about paying more for platforms like torrent , tumblr , google etc , but like i said i can't comprehend much of the jumble of words tumblr throws at me about the articles .
      Thanks once again for your reply and reassurance to the fans.
      
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    2. 1. varevare (varebanos) Wed 27 Jun 2018 10:34PM UTC
        
        You're not gonna get prosecuted for accessing sites with copyrighted content. As to what sites are legal, some content hasn't been licensed through any platforms in some regions so it's actually a legal gap in some jurisdictions; regardless you're not gonna get prosecuted for accessing sites with copyrighted content, YouTube is chock full of it.
        In any case if it sounds completely out of measure and unreasonable, it's probably not true.
        
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6. Marrilyn Sat 23 Jun 2018 01:34PM UTC
  
  Can I just try to summarize it to see if I understood it? My first language isn't English (I'm from Croatia) and all I'm seeing is panic, and you seem to know what you're talking about and I just want to make sure I got it right.
  We will still be allowed to post our fanart and fanfictions on sites like Tumblr, AO3, fanfiction.net etc. They won't be removed, we won't be banned from sites, and content would only be removed if the original copyright holder made a claim? Otherwise, no action would be done. We'll be allowed to create art and stories as we had for all these years. Did I get it right?
  
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7. 1. varevare (varebanos) Sat 23 Jun 2018 03:01PM UTC
    
    Yes, yes, and yes. People do not understand the law, that's why they panic.
    
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  2. 1. Marrilyn Sat 23 Jun 2018 05:27PM UTC
      
      Thank you!
      
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Aeltari Thu 21 Jun 2018 12:12PM UTC

Bottom line....its greed thats causing this. Copyright to me has always been a huge steaming pile of garbage.

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Airelle Thu 21 Jun 2018 01:54PM UTC

Would it be possible to give us this same advice (letter for our MEP) translated into the various European languages? A model letter in every language would be perfect. I found the letter by following the link, but apparently, it's only in English. Being a translator myself, I could translate it into French if it's needed.

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