Call for Feedback on Category Change Proposal

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2013-09-18 16:55:38 UTC

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The Category Change Workgroup is excited to share its proposal changing the way fandoms are categorised on the Archive, and we are looking for your feedback!

Our goal is to change the current fandom categories into something that balances complex, sometimes competing, factors such as diverse fannish traditions, user behavior (current and potential), and ease of browsing. You can read about the concerns that brought the workgroup into existence and some more information on the workgroup in our introductory post.

Right now fandoms on the archive are sorted into media categories - Anne of Green Gables - L. M. Montgomery can be found under Books & Literature for example, and fandoms that fall under multiple categories are listed under multiple categories.

Under the proposed system, media categories are one of three attributes that fandoms will be sorted by and browsable under. The other two attributes are country of origin and source language. Anne of Green Gables - L. M. Montgomery would have the attributes Canada and English. Like with the current media categories, fandoms will be able to have more than one country or language. The guidelines for how the country and language attributes are assigned to fandoms will be made by the Tag Wrangling Committee.

The proposed media categories have subcategories. Fandoms can belong to multiple categories and subcategories. Fandoms may also belong to a category but none of its subcategories. That subset of fandoms that belong to a specific category but none of its subcategories will be viewable.

The proposed media categories and subcategories have been named with the idea of that name being easily understandable to different people.

Proposed Media categories and Submedia categories

Animation, Comics, Manga & Other Sequential Art

* Anime & Manga
* Bande Dessinée
* DC
* Films
* Manhwa
* Marvel
* Webcomics & Webseries

Audio & Music

* Albums & Songs
* Audio Plays & Spoken Word

Books, Literature & Lore

* Myth, Folktales & Religion
* Novels, Novellas & Short Stories
* Poetry

Games

* Board Games
* Tabletop Roleplaying Games
* Video Games
* Visual Novels

Live Action Films, TV Shows & Other Productions

* Films
* TV Shows
* Webseries

Performing Arts

* Ballet & Dance
* Theater & Musicals

Real Person Fiction

* Actors
* Bands & Musicians
* Political & Historical
* Sports

Other Media

* Paintings, Sculptures & Related Art Forms

So, Anne of Green Gables - L. M. Montgomery would belong to the media category Books, Literature & Lore and the subcategory Novels, Novellas & Short Stories. It will be findable under those media categories as well as its language and country attributes. Users will be able to browse fandoms by combining these attributes to find, for example, Books, Literature & Lore fandoms that have Canada as a country of origin. Users will also be able to search for a fandom by typing its name into a search box on the main fandoms page that will replace the current media page.

Each fandom on the archive will have a landing page that will include a list of its attibutes (media, country, language), a link to its page on Fanlore (if the page exists), and a link to its works and bookmarks on the archive.

Layout Changes

Mock-ups have been created to illustrate how finding a fandom on the archive will work when this new system is implemented. This is not a finalised lay-out of the new page.

Figure 1: The Initial State of the New Fandom Page (Click to enlarge)

There is a small selection of fandoms initially displayed on the page including fandoms that have recently experienced activity, and fandoms that are currently popular on the archive. Above these fandoms is a search box labelled "Search for a fandom" as well as three tabs labelled "Media Type", "Language of source", and "Country of source".

Figure 2: Media Category Dropdown (Click to enlarge)

When the "Media Type" tab is selected, the small selection of fandoms originally listed is replaced. In their spot all of the media categories are listed and submedia categories are displayed as buttons beneath their respective categories. Alongside each media category's subcategories are the buttons "All" and "No Submedia". The number of fandoms belonging to each subcategory is displayed in brackets on that subcategory's button. Beneath "Performing Arts" one finds "All (1287), No Submedia (71), Ballet & Dance (412), Theater & Musicals (23)". (The numbers used in this mock-up are not accurate.)

Figure 3: Submedia Display Page (Click to enlarge)

When a specific submedia is selected, a small selection of fandoms in that submedia category is displayed - fandoms with recent activity and fandoms that are currently popular on the archive. On the header for the submedia, the option "show all [count] fandoms" is displayed.

So, for example, Who Framed Roger Rabbit (1988) is a fandom that would belong to the Films submedia category of Live Action Films, TV Shows & Other Productions as well as the Films submedia category of Animation, Comics, Manga & Other Sequential Art. El Eternauta will belong to Animation, Comics, Manga & Other Sequential Art but none of its subcategories.

Please tell us!

There is a Category Change FAQ that has been prepared for this announcement and may answer some basic questions that you may have.

Two subsets of fandoms not yet categorised in the proposed new system are WWE-type Wrestling and Anthropomorphic.

1) Wrestling is under the current fandom categories as Other Media. Are you in Wrestling fandom? Do you think it belongs in Other Media? Real Person Fiction? Performing Arts? Real Person Fiction and Performing Arts? Let us know.

2) Anthropormophic is also currently under Other Media. Do you think it should stay there or does it belong with the proposed Real Person Fiction subcategories under a Real Life category?

Those are two areas that we're particularly interested in feedback on, but we of course welcome feedback on all aspects of the proposal.

The Category Change Workgroup will be reviewing all of the feedback and making (or not making) adjustments to the proposal in response to that feedback. There may or may not be another public review period, depending on how the proposal is altered because of the feedback. Once the Category Change Workgroup has finalised the proposal it will be sent to the Board for approval.

We want your feedback on this proposal. Please leave a comment on this post or contact us through the Category Change contact form.

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Psyga315 Sun 22 Sep 2013 12:33AM UTC

I'm all for the media and submedia category splits.

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1. LadyOscar (Category_Change_Workgroup) Sun 22 Sep 2013 01:50AM UTC
  
  Hi Psyga315,
  Thank you for your feedback. We’re glad to hear you’re happy with the splits!
  Best,
  Lady Oscar
  AO3 Category Change Workgroup
  
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susan_voight Sun 22 Sep 2013 02:17AM UTC

I just want to nth the feedback that "no submedia" is incredibly confusing and non-intuitive. "All other" would be my preference.

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1. hele (Category_Change_Workgroup) Sun 22 Sep 2013 02:51AM UTC
  
  Hi!
  Thanks for the feedback! Have registered it for the discussion.
  Best,
  hele
  AO3 Category Change Workgroup
  
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geri_chan Sun 22 Sep 2013 04:07AM UTC

This already seems to be a majority opinion, but I definitely prefer keeping Anime & Manga together as a category.
And I'm very happy about the "Country of Origin" option! For awhile now, I've been wanting a way to browse for J-dramas without having to go through the entire TV fandom listing, so this would be very helpful.

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1. hele (Category_Change_Workgroup) Sun 22 Sep 2013 05:00AM UTC
  
  Hi,
  Thanks for commenting! I've registered your feedback about the Manga & Anime subcategory. I'm glad you like the option to filter by country.
  Best,
  hele
  AO3 Category Change Workgroup
  
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Dusk Peterson (duskpeterson) Mon 23 Sep 2013 02:07PM UTC

1) Hele wrote: "Yes, the search field at the top would allow you to enter any fandom name, and all fandoms that fit it would show up, no matter the media categories, country or language they belong to."
Squee! The particular example you chose shows why this would be useful. Suppose that I want to browse through the fic about Anne of Green Gables. Do I look in Books? TV shows? Movies, in case there's a movie? Theater, in case there's a play? And who would think to look in Other Media to find the Doctor Who audio and webseries?
Someone mentioned the "All Media Types" metatags in the comments, but that assumes that the person knows which category the fandom might be in, and what the name of the metatag is. (In the case of Anne of Green Gables, the metatag is "MONTGOMERY L.M - Works," which I wouldn't have guessed.) There should be some way to easily pinpoint a fandom, without knowing which category it's in.
Like others here, I like the idea of a browsable list, because sometimes I just like to see what's out there. You could divide that list into alphabetical pages, if you're concerned about size.
2) Supergreak said, "For any browsing tag, you can delete the /works off the end to see the tag landing page."
Oh my gosh, this is so incredibly valuable to know. Is there any way to highlight this fact more at the archive? I like Aurilly's suggestion of some sort of feature to alert people to the underlying structure of the fandom tag, because most people are FAQ-phobic.
3) I'm wondering whether there's some way in which it would be possible to do a search and bring up a fandom *without* bringing up a crossover fandom. There are certain fandoms that are so heavily crossovered that it would be nice to be able to just pull up the non-crossovered stories.
4) I wish you'd determine where fanfic based on online fiction should be housed. These are in Other Media:
http://archiveofourown.org/tags/Captive%20Prince%20-%20S*d*%20U*d*%20Pacat/works
http://archiveofourown.org/tags/Triangle%20Series%20-%20Susann%20Julieva/works
These are in Books:
http://archiveofourown.org/tags/Slave%20Breakers%20-%20maculategiraffe/works
http://archiveofourown.org/tags/Eternal%20Dungeon%20-%20Dusk%20Peterson/works
http://archiveofourown.org/tags/Shadow%20of%20the%20Templar%20-%20M*d*%20Chandler/works
Folks, these are all fanfic based on online fiction that ended up as books/e-books. Can we be consistent about this, please? I think online fiction is a form of literature, so I would suggest that fandoms based on online fiction be placed in Books.
5) Along the same lines, I'm probably suggesting something you're already doing, but I think Other Media should be re-examined periodically. Otherwise, it gets filled with fandoms that either belong in another category or deserve a subcategory within Other Media.
6) Someone mentioned wanting an "other" category for subcategories not listed under categories. I agree, no matter what name you choose for it (miscellaneous? assorted?). Otherwise, one has to browse through the entire All list, just to find the fandoms not listed in the other subcategories.
(Continued in the next post.)

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1. Dusk Peterson (duskpeterson) Mon 23 Sep 2013 02:08PM UTC
  
  7) I like your subcategories for "Books, Literature & Lore," though I'm wondering how you'll handle novels that are based on myths/legends, like Mary Stewart's "The Crystal Cave."
  8) As a historical fic fan, I find it really frustrating that I can't browse fandoms by period, except by tag, except in the RPF category. And most people wouldn't think, "Oh, I'll tag Shakespeare fic as '17th century.'" Would you consider adding a historical fandom search mechanism in the future, similar to the "country of source" and "language of source" filters you're proposing?
  9) In terms of the layout of your new system: I understand that you're trying to squeeze as many words as possible onto a page, but personally, I find it easier to browse alphabetical lists when they're vertical rather than vertical+horizontal. With a vertical list, I can scroll quickly, because my eye automatically goes down to the letter(s) of the alphabet I need.
  So I agree with what Anony says: "Please also pass the suggestion to have the lists as one fandom per line, left aligned (or right if the user interface ever gets the option for rtl languages), one column or two columns, or even better browser-depended columns."
  
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2. 1. hele (Category_Change_Workgroup) Tue 24 Sep 2013 04:01AM UTC
    
    Hi, Dusk!
    In order:
    1) I'm glad you like the idea of being able to search for fandoms regardless of their media! I will pass on your feedback about a full list.
    2) Right now, you can access the tag page (instead of the work list) by clicking on the tag's name at the top of any tag's work list. For example, if you click on the tag Anne of Green Gables - L. M. Montgomery, or any of its synonymous tags, in any work, you will be led to the work list: http://archiveofourown.org/tags/Anne%20of%20Green%20Gables%20-%20L*d*%20M*d*%20Montgomery/works. At the top of the work list, there's the tag name, which is a link to the tag landing page: http://archiveofourown.org/tags/Anne%20of%20Green%20Gables%20-%20L*d*%20M*d*%20Montgomery. I'll pass on your feedback about needing to make that more prominent.
    3) There's a feature request to be able to look for works that aren't crossovers (here: https://trello.com/c/Wd8d0VFN), but it's outside Category Change's purview. In the meantime, it's not a full workaround, but you can try typing into the Search within results field:
    -Crossover -Fusion
    That should eliminate any works from the list which have either of those words in their title, author name, tags, summary or author's notes.
    4) The specific guidelines about where particular kinds of canons would go (particularly canons that can be considered to straddle some lines) would be up to the Tag Wrangling Committee, as it's now. Category Change will be recommending they be added to any applicable categories if users are at all likely to search for them there, but it's not our purview to direct the Tag Wrangling Committee or its volunteers in more detail. If you want to consult the Tag Wrangling Committee about the guidelines, you can send in a ticket to Support (http://archiveofourown.org/support) and they will pass on the message. That should get you either an explanation for the inconsistency or a fix!
    5) As in the previous point, the Category Change committee does not do any direct work relating to tags. We will be recommending and setting a procedure for adding more subcategories and categories in the new system, but we don't have any purview over the current one.
    6) Duly noted! Currently, the proposal does contemplate such a category, but it's called 'No Submedia'. A lot of users commenting on this post are pointing out they find the name unintuitive.
    7) I'm not sure what are the options you envision, not knowing the canon you reference. Particular cases (especially cases that straddle the line) will be left to the discretion of tag wranglers and the Tag Wrangling committee, as they are currently.
    8) I'll pass on the feedback about adding a date metadata for fandoms. All metadata will have to be added by hand, so we have to find a balance between what users would like to have and how much work it's likely to cause for the volunteers.
    9) I have noted down your feedback!
    Best,
    hele
    AO3 Category Change
    
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  2. 1. Dusk Peterson (duskpeterson) Tue 24 Sep 2013 05:23AM UTC
      
      Thanks! Your reply is very helpful.
      
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3. AO3_Tag_Wranglers (Official) Tue 24 Sep 2013 04:29PM UTC
  
  Hi, Dusk!
  Regarding #4, the first two tags you list—Captive Prince - S. U. Pacat and the Triangle Series - Susann Julieva—are actually double-categorized under both "Other Media" and "Books & Literature". The Wrangling staff is discussing if they should be in "Other Media" at all, or if they got accidentally placed there because we tend to put online items in that category. Let us know via a Support ticket or Twitter if you have any thoughts or concerns!
  Best,
  Sam J.
  AO3 Wrangling
  
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4. 1. Dusk Peterson (duskpeterson) Thu 26 Sep 2013 06:01AM UTC
    
    "Let us know"
    Done! Thanks!
    
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(Previous comment deleted.)
1. hele (Category_Change_Workgroup) Tue 24 Sep 2013 04:18AM UTC
  
  Hi there!
  Many thanks for commenting. We have considered separating them (we have considered many, many different schemes), but the general trend of feedback about this issue, both from interested volunteers and staff, and from users, has been pretty overwhelmingly against it.
  In any case, I'll register your feedback for our next discussion about it!
  Best,
  hele
  AO3 Category Change
  
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Pslasher Thu 26 Sep 2013 01:04PM UTC

I just wanted to comment and say I like the idea of the 'popular fandoms' type of listing, though I also support a proper A-Z list as well. Even if they aren't both on the same page, I think there could still be a spot for the 'popular fandoms' and 'recently active' lists, maybe on the front page or somewhere else.
I'm very excited to see this in action!!

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1. hele (Category_Change_Workgroup) Sat 28 Sep 2013 01:22AM UTC
  
  Hi,
  Many thanks for commenting! I'll note down your feedback about alternative placements for the 'popular fandoms' list for our discussion.
  Best,
  hele
  AO3 Category Change Workgroup
  
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Account Deleted Fri 04 Oct 2013 12:18PM UTC

A Radio category might also be useful.

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1. hele (Category_Change_Workgroup) Fri 04 Oct 2013 04:49PM UTC
  
  Hi,
  Under the current proposal, radio fandoms would fall under "Audio & Music", in one of the subcategories, if they fit, or just under the main category.
  However, we will certainly keep your feedback into account in our discussion, thanks for commenting!
  Best,
  hele
  AO3 Category Change
  
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