Calling fanartists! Tell us about your ideal archive!

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2010-04-06 21:11:39 UTC

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The Archive of Our Own entered Open Beta in November 2009; in the six months since we've had 18 code releases and have seen 5929 users, 5031 fandoms and 64347 new works added to the Archive. \0/ We've had a bunch of new features, big and small, and have made big improvements in performance, cross-browser compatibility and accessibility. We still have some big features to roll out, but now the first rush is over, we're planning further ahead. One of the key things we're thinking about for our longer-term planning is opening up the Archive to fanart and other media, and we're looking for ideas from artists!

Fanartists - what features would you like in your ideal archive? We want to know:

If we were to replace the story box with an upload tool, would that do most of what you want, or are there other things you need?
What sites would you like to be able to import from automatically, and how should a multi-upload tool work?
What types of art would you want to host on the Archive? What special requirements would these have?
What things about the existing interface would work well for you, and what would you need to see changed / added?
What are your DREAMS? Whether you've seen a cool feature on another Archive, or it's something you're not even sure is possible, we want to hear from you.

Hosting fanart and (eventually) fanvids has always been an important part of the plan for the Archive, but up until now we've focused on building the text-based aspects of the site because, well, we had to learn to walk before we could run! Hosting other media represents a much bigger technical challenge, as well as additional legal complexity, and actually hosting fanart on the Archive itself is still some way off (we need to learn a LOT more about performance). In the meantime, though, it's really important to us to make the Archive a more welcoming place for the whole fannish community, and we want to make sure that our design and development is working towards a truly inclusive site. So - tell us your dreams! We'll work to make them a reality (and if you'd like to help in that work, we always welcome volunteers).

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katekat Thu 08 Apr 2010 07:15AM UTC

# If we were to replace the story box with an upload tool, would that do most of what you want, or are there other things you need?
When you say "story box" do you mean the "work text" entry box for a new story? If yes, then the only additional thing would be a field where we could indicate the artwork was created specifically for story.
Possibly, also, because often these days there are a series of artworks created for a single story, if the "chapters" could be considered "items" in a "collection" (and so the viewer, if they chose, could view all the art pieces in a collection at once, like they can currently choose to see all the chapters in a story on a single page)
# What sites would you like to be able to import from automatically, and how should a multi-upload tool work?
automatically: pics.livejournal.com / deviant art
multi-upload tool: This one is tough because i think lj pics doesn't collect images into a single directory (so we couldn't point the tool at a folder and have it nab all images in that folder), but the notion of having to hand enter all of the URLs for each individual piece (especially for icon makers) is daunting at best and totally tedious at worst.
# What types of art would you want to host on the Archive? What special requirements would these have?
one way to think about type:
icons - they are great in grids so you have a host of files on a single page (it is entirely frightening to think of a display where the equation is 1 icon to 1 page). It would be helpful to be able to have them auto arrange into a grid (and pie-in-the-sky wish is that we could choose the display of 4 columns, 5 columns, grid colors, style, etc - default should be a table that has no outlines but at least 10 px padding between each column and row), grouped by tag possibly?
larger than icon size - (I'm talking anything in size from an award banner to full wallpapers and everything in between) theoretically these could be displayed more than one to a page, but most likely default is one to a page. For the largest of these, ideally there would be some kind of a preview that is fit to screen (like the way Deviant art presents a smaller version until you click to see the full size even if that full size is larger than your screen)
a second way to think about type:
manips, hand-drawn/painted, digital art, cartoon/manga, graphic novel, cover art
All of these would fall into the category I mentioned above, and would probably want to be displayed in that way.
# What things about the existing interface would work well for you, and what would you need to see changed / added?
I think I've talked about some of that above in terms of each individual type of file. However, for the index of works under a specific author/artist would need to somehow reflect that these are art pieces (possibly a mini-preview of some sort?). I noticed some of the commenters suggesting a separation between art and story, and I think that might be worth preserving. Also, would there be separate searches so people looking for fic aren't having to constantly designate that they want to exclude artwork? Would this go for tags too?
# What are your DREAMS? Whether you've seen a cool feature on another Archive, or it's something you're not even sure is possible, we want to hear from you.
Pie in the sky like major pie?
A slideshow option. Check out photoshop.com (you have to 'test drive') and choose slide show from a gallery.
Thank you guys for asking about this, and if I had more time I would be volunteering, and I will keep it in mind if I ever get free time again!

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ringspells Thu 08 Apr 2010 11:31AM UTC

It would be great if, as said above, we could custom-crop thumbnails for each piece of art, and if the way each thumbnail was displayed depended on the rating of the piece. For example, if a piece is rated Explicit, and a viewer had chosen not to view thumbnails of explicit pieces (or wasn't signed in), it would show as a red box in place of the thumbnail, stating, "Explicit!"
I don't know if this makes sense, but it would be even better if pieces and their thumbnails could be rated separately, so if a thumbnail of an explicit piece was cropped in such a way that it would be appropriate for everyone, it could be rated All Ages, and thus the viewers would see an actual thumbnail, but still state that the piece itself is explicit.

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eggsbenedict (Guest) Thu 08 Apr 2010 12:47PM UTC

I really, really like the idea of "this post is a response to..." that you see on Youtube and Pixiv. So if your pic is in response to a fic, they link to each other. If a video or pic is a parody of another pic, they link to each other. If abuse is an issue, get the author of the work being linked to to approve the responses.
Also nthing the multiple uploads, thumbnail generation after upload and support for comic pages. Specifying a URL to grab an image from would be nice, but I'm not too fussed; I upload a million things to a million places already and they all have their distinct purposes.

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Lizfu (Guest) Thu 08 Apr 2010 05:12PM UTC

* DEFINITELY something where I can upload multiple items, a la Photobucket. I <3 shift+ctrl.
* At the same time, however, I like DA and y-gallery's way of uploading things, where you have to take the time to fill out a description, tags, etc, before you actually upload/post anything. (admittedly, y-gal's is more of a pain-in-the-ass than DA's, simply because you have to fill in EVERYTHING from theme to the amount of time it took to make a piece) DA's is really nice in that if your computer craps out on you while you're doing the necessary paperwork for your image, the image (which you choose to upload in the first few steps) will still be there.
* Subfolders <3 I've already seen this suggestion on here, but just to throw in my support, subfolders are fantastic for artists who like to keep their galleries organized. It's easier for both the artist and the viewer to find things without sifting around through a ton of unrelated pieces.
* As an artist, I feel much better knowing that minors can't look at the "adult images" I post on LJ or y-gallery. Both sites handle this differently in ways that suit their user base. If we could have something that allows us to mark not just images but also subfolders as "mature" and makes them only viewable to anybody 18+, that would be fantastic.
* Tags <3
* Something that allows credit to other artists on site if it's a collaboration; or if it's gift art, shows that it's for another user.

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ratcreature Thu 08 Apr 2010 07:26PM UTC

First, let me say that your comment system sucks. I wrote a long detailed comment, and it said that it was below 4300 characters (no red warning) but then after "add comment" it told me there was a problem saving as there were too many characters, but I couldn't get the text I had written back! WTF? So this is the second time I type this.
Thus just in brief points, as I agree with much above anyway.
I would like bulk uploading too but not like photobucket b/c the Flash thing does not work for me at all since they upgraded some time ago. I would also like to import from a folder on my website. Importing from dA would be good as well, but I do not like their category organization. IMO the main problem there is that they mix media categories (digital/traditional/photo/etc) with content (fantasy art/book fanart/tv fanart/landscape/etc) in the same category tree so you don't what/how to pick. Tags here would prevent that. I'd like the media tags wrangled like the fandoms and others though, so that for ex. if I dislike photomanips but like drawn fanart or vice versa, or want only textiles but not sculptures etc, I could pick that easily even if someon calls it slightly differently in their personal tags.
I think however that dA's interface is not very intuitive. I am now used to it, but I had a lot of problems at first, so I don't think that should be a model. I like their Scrapbook feature though where you can put your less polished work/sketches and such outside your main gallery but still allow others to see them. I'd like to have something like that here.
I also like the grouping idea, both for reading comics, but in my case b/c I like to post hi-res details along with a screen sized drawing. What would be really cool would be if there was zooming like in google maps or something, i.e. I could upload a hi-res image and it would display in browser size but viewers could zoom in wherever they liked. Then I would not need to make the detail pictures.
I also would like grouping for posting in progress stages of an artwork, maybe along with text like for tutorials and such, because I like to see methods of artists and how-tos but I'd also understand if that kind of thing was OT for AO3, but I thought since writers can post WIPs maybe it could be okay.
I would like to be able to select the area for my own thumbnail (or upload it) if I don't want the standard one. I also like dA's display with the inbetween size that you than enlarge, and that you can download hi-res versions if the artist allows on top of the screenres sizes. I also like that their watermarking is optional, because I dislike watermarks and do not want them on my work.
In the upload field the ratings would need to be explained more clearly as to how they apply to visual content, because standard of what is considered okay for children to see vary widely between countries. So I would like to know for example whether nudity without any sex would be general, okay for teenagers, mature, or what.
I would like a field where you could say a work is in reaction to another work (like an illustration for a story). I also like the idea mentioned above that an author could embed a picture I made for them into their story, but I would still retain control, so that if for example two days later I notice I gave someone six fingers I could correct it and upload a new version and it would be updated in their story as well (with a notification of course so that they could check that the changes are not something they would not want to display in their piece).
I also like the idea of a credit field (to acknowledge sources like textures, references etc) as well as a field were you could give an okay to use your art (for stuff like icons/wallpapers or such).

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1. Zooey_Glass Fri 09 Apr 2010 09:04PM UTC
  
  Hey! Just to let you know you stumbled on an unintentional bug with the comment being eaten! We're sorry - we're working on fixing it!
  
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2. 1. ratcreature Fri 09 Apr 2010 09:13PM UTC
    
    That is good to know that this will be fixed.
    
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Megaptera (Guest) Fri 09 Apr 2010 02:29AM UTC

- Thumbnail support
- Ability to upload reasonably big images, needed for reading comic pages
- Ability to link sequential images/strips/pages to each other so that they can be read in order
- Folder support so that a bunch of related images can be 'together'
Thank you!

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Vardonir Fri 09 Apr 2010 11:37AM UTC

* Shift/Ctrl + click for multiple uploads.
* dA, Photobucket, Flickr, imageshack.
* I'd probably add my not-so-good-but-I'm-still-proud-of-them fan art. Like everyone else, I say thumbnails.
* I'd say dA's interface works well for me. Just remove all the s***** ads and the flashy bits (e.g., the Categories box) and it'll work well for AOOO.
* Optional watermarking's good.
* Again, like everybody else, yes hell for the sub folder thing. For stuff like comics. Or a series of stuff.
* Just nothing flashy that'll will load slowly. That's all I want. No Flash code, please!

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zvi Sat 10 Apr 2010 02:13AM UTC

From a free culture perspective, it would be great if the Archive offered autoconverting to free formats: png, ogg, theora, gimp, gimp brushes. Oh, um, it would be good if you let people save brushes. And gimp/photoshop files.

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sqbr Sat 10 Apr 2010 12:12PM UTC

-A "type of work" check box similar to het/gen/femslash etc that included comic, artwork, fic, other. Checkboxes not radio buttons to include illustrated stories etc.
-TRANSCRIPT/DESCRIPTION. I've been putting mine in manually and it's ugly and clunky. This is more of a big deal for comics but it's a really important accessibility feature for all images. Something unobtrusive that expands if you click on it would be ideal in my opinion, but I don't know what suits people with visual impairments.
-I've been using the "chapters" feature to do pages of comics which has been ok apart from the fact that it says "chapters" when they're just pages (this makes the work look much longer than it is!).
-Uploading from DeviantArt which included stuff like the associated text notes and tags
-I would upload moderately large traditional-ish art, comics, manips, and maybe icons. Maybe animated gif icons! There's often some overlap between these groups.
Here's an example of one of my comics on the archive with chapters and transcripts: http://archiveofourown.org/works/50344/chapters/66265
Some non art specific things:
-the ability to save drafts in a formal way rather than the hax of cancelling mid upload.
-I like DAs scrapbook for works you don't want on your main page but don't want to delete. (These could also work as drafts I guess)
-something I like about DeviantArt's folders vs the "Series" option here is that a work can be in more than one folder at once. Currently I have to use tags to do this.

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Account Deleted Sat 10 Apr 2010 10:04PM UTC

With regards to fanart, I'd really appreciate it if there were more categories or tags (or whatever other sorting system) available apart from what fandom(s) the work belongs to, and what the rating is; namely, I'd be sending you kisses forever if this proposed expansion also recognised, say, ink drawings being distinct from watercolours being distinct from digital art being distinct from photomanips, etc.

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Spaggel Sat 10 Apr 2010 10:49PM UTC

This is so exciting! Oh, I have been waiting to just even hear about this being done as I am a primary fanartist with very few fics (*cough*3*cough*)
+ The subcategories. I think are really a must, since well. If you are drawing for a series, or comic or just set of photos you want them grouped together. Or an option of clicking on a certain fandom an artist has drawn in that will link to all appropriate artwork.
+ Maybe a [view all] option? Or [view 5]? Like there is an option to view a chaptered story all in one post, maybe have that same option for the subcategories? Say for comic pages, or collections. So you are not clicking all the time.
+ An option for a sketchbook option off the main gallery. For WIP pieces, sketches and small doodles. Maybe have a file size limit that would be half of the main galleries limit. That way you really can archive all of your work, but without overloading the servers.
+ I know there are NSFW images out there, maybe have a filtering option so people browsing artwork won't come across it on accident.
There is just so much more I know I want to say, but these are the basics that I would love to have.

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zulu Sun 11 Apr 2010 02:51PM UTC

I run a big bang challenge, which puts art and stories together. I'd like to see a way for artists to post their art so that it's linked to the story and vice versa, like a remix; I'd like that linkage to include a thumbnail of the full artwork; I'd like the artist to receive any comments that link from their art on a storypage, so that the author doesn't get the artist's comments too. I'd like there to be art thumbnails on my big bang collection pages much as there is a snippet/summary for the stories: again, linking story with art, but also allowing separate viewing/commenting for author and artist.
*grin* And as long as I'm being demanding, I'd like all this by the time my challenge rolls around again. You've got a year, AO3 devs! :D

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1. sqbr Wed 14 Apr 2010 03:05AM UTC
  
  Something important that just occurred to me: I, like a number of other people, already have art up at AO3. When it becomes possible to upload art here it's very important that I can edit the art I already have to fit into the new Art template without breaking all my links and series and comments etc.
  
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2. alchemise Thu 15 Apr 2010 11:08PM UTC
  
  As an artist who regularly participates in Big Bangs, oh hell yes, all of this would be awesome! :D
  
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Rodo Wed 14 Apr 2010 07:48AM UTC

I'm not really a fanartist (anymore), but back when I was, I really liked Animexx's system, which I found far more intuitive than DA.
They've since added a lot of new features, for example the field for media (computer coloured, water colours, etc.). An example. You can also mark fanart as illustrations of fanfics.
They also treat doujinshi/fancomics as a hybrid between text-only story and art, which is, imo, very useful, because you can add single fanarts as illustrations to the overall story page, while you can click through the chapters themselves and the pages are not counted as single artworks. I also think it's nifty that you can set right -> left or right An example.

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picapie Fri 16 Apr 2010 10:13AM UTC

Can I just say I'm incredibly excited about this? :D
* I'd like a way to tag for medium. Possibly with ticky boxes, in case it's mixed media, e.g. [x]pencil [ ]ink [x]digital painting [ ]3D
* I'd also LOVE some sort of permanent setting that lets me filter out things I'm never interested in. For example, I can't stand Poser art and would love to never have to look at it again. It'd be wonderful if I could just exclude it from my searches.
* I'd like a filter that lets me lock things to only be shown to other registered users.
* As for importing/multi-upload: deviantArt is the main one for me, but y!gallery and flickr would also be useful. Also maybe LJ Scrapbook?
A multi-upload tool could work like Facebook's photo upload thing, perhaps? i.e. Ctrl/Cmnd+Click to select multiple files, then being able to name and tag them in one go, then publish.
* I'd mostly want to host standalone image files, but I'd also be interested in hosting sequential art. It would be neat if there was some way of assigning a bunch of images (or maybe images AND text) to one project, which then sets them up in a way that allows the reader to flip through them. (And in addition, maybe arranges them on a separate project page in thumbnail format, so people can access specific pages more easily.)
* A way to combine images and text would be lovely.
* This may be obvious, but in addition to the summary, art should get a thumbnail in list view / search results. It might be nice if there was a tool that let the artist crop/resize the thumbnail. (Rather than, or as an additional option to, automating the process.)
* I'd like a quick way to favourite a piece of art, and a gallery view of all my favourites. (But the bookmarking system sort of does the quick-favouriting thing already.)

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Leyna Fri 16 Apr 2010 01:54PM UTC

First - Yay! I'm looking forward to this.
Mostly in agreement with everyone else:
User-defined thumbnails - I'd like to make my own.
Some options for display of the thumbnails into a Gallery on the My Works page - I like deviantArt's folders, and featured works mini-galleries, but mostly I'd like to be able to rearrange my collection of thumbnails, eg so they look aesthetically pleasing or are grouped logically, or alphabetically by fandom, or show my best work at the top, or however I want to arrange them. Maybe some options for thumbnail sizes and some simple grid options for placement.
The ability to group works into projects - either mine (eg my paintings for a set fandom, or personal project, or art plus closeups or WIPs etc), or a multi-user project (eg Yuletart, with anonymous and gifting ability like with Yuletide), or together with a story for say, a Bigbang challenge.
The ability to link the art to a story, to be able to view it within the text but hyperlinked back to the original art, so that editing the original also changes the linked image, and so all comments on the art end up in the same place (in the artist's gallery).
The ability to edit or replace parts of the post, including the original image, or the thumbnail without having to change anything else.
An area for notes and artist comments under the art
Tags for artistic or craft medium, as well as theme, character, fandom etc. (I'd love to be able to search for watercolours, for example, regardless of fandom *g*)
Some choice in display Gallery design options - I'm thinking choice of background colour for instance. Not all art is most effectively viewed against a white background. Being able to choose a more effective setting would be great.

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jellybeanfactory Wed 28 Jul 2010 11:49AM UTC

This is. Going to be. So. Great. Thank you guys for doing this! A few suggestions:
~ This is a feature I'd really love to have: it would be really cool if AO3 can install a small art theft prevention tool -- some sort of image recognition thing similar to Tineye ( http://www.tineye.com/ ), so that when a user uploads an image, if someone else has uploaded the same image or part of it, the user will be notified with the user name and the URL. I know this is a tall order, but I thought I'd throw it out there, anyway.
~ The ability to add an art pseudonym without it being linked to fic pseudonyms or usernames (or maybe be allowed to create a secondary account for the same e-mail address?). Some people like to keep their art identity separate from their fic identity.
~ Have a "This fanwork was also featured/used in the following works:" option within individual images.
~ Have a "This fanwork is in response to the following works:" option.
~ Several images linked under one image thumbnail for sequential artwork -- pixiv has this option.
~ An optional credits and resources list per image ("Textures from:" "Brushes from:" etc)
~ Tags! Similar to the fic tags with regard to fandom and content, because that tagging system is awesome.
~ This might ruffle a few feathers, but for those works that make use of other fanworks (ie icon makers or vids that use fanart), they should be required to provide a credit link back to the original artist of what they used.
~ Embeddable thumbs/previews that can be posted in other places like LJ, DW, blogs, etc. would be awesome. Also with size options (100-width, 200-width, 300-width, 400-width) for the embeddable thumbnails.
~ A "Progression" option per image, in case the artist has uploaded WIPs of the artwork and want to link it to the finished art.
~ A sketchbook section for those roughs, WIPs, tegaki, etc.
~ The ability to view a user's entire gallery as a whole or sorted by fandom, by date, by genre, by rating, etc. Please don't make us jump through hoops just to view a single person's entire gallery.
~ Have a Favorites system.
~ I would really like it if the system is just "click on thumbnail -> view full image," but I'm sure that'll cause some problems for other people. Maybe add an option for viewers where, if an artwork is larger than so-and-so resolution or larger than so-and-soKB, a smaller or lower resolution version can be displayed for that user.
~ An in-built tegaki/online live drawing board with chat capabilities would be pretty cool for something extra, with a multi-user and single-user option. Results of the single-user option can be added automatically to a small section in the user's gallery ala-tegaki.
~ An accessible report button, for those cases of art theft or icons that use fanart without citing credit/permission.
Some of these were mentioned earlier, but I wanted to put in my support for them.

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Hurricane Islandheart (Guest) Thu 05 Aug 2010 02:43PM UTC

This should be a given, but since I was linked to dA's most recent FAQ on fanart this morning, I thought I'd add in:
* Allow us to present characters at any age we want them to be. dA's FAQ suggests that they do NOT allow that - characters are not allowed to be aged-up from canon ages for purpose of fic or art: http://help.deviantart.com/248/

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calcitrix Thu 16 Sep 2010 03:43AM UTC

Hope this is getting closer! I'd like to add support to the suggestion that we be able to imbed artwork into a story--or at least a thumbnail that will open the full pic in a new window when clicked. I also think it's important to be able to link related stories and artwork, perhaps related to how fic in the "series" category works.
I like how in Facebook I can drag the selection tool over a photo to create the thumbnail rather than having it done automatically, but that's farther down the list for me.

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scribblemyname Wed 22 Sep 2010 05:10PM UTC

If we were to replace the story box with an upload tool, would that do most of what you want, or are there other things you need?
• That's a good option, but it should have the ability to include a thumbnail and a full-size view, for when you're uploading a really large image, like a wallpaper.
• As long as that still means chapter functionality as well. It's nice to be able to do a series, as someone else said, like a comic book.

What sites would you like to be able to import from automatically, and how should a multi-upload tool work?
• weebly image galleries if at all possible. They're a pain to figure out actual URLs from though, so I'll understand if it's impossible
• LiveJournal scrapbook
• Multi-upload should allow you to make each a chapter or a separate work, just like with stories. Other than that, the editing tools, including multiple work editing seem fine. Mass editing thumbnail properties would also be awesome.
What types of art would you want to host on the Archive? What special requirements would these have?
• wallpapers
• banners
• icons in multiple sizes
• other images of varying sizes, with stories or not written atop them. (for me, I'm writing one story on 52 playing card images)
• Illustrated stories would be awesome. Please?
What things about the existing interface would work well for you, and what would you need to see changed / added?
• not sure. so far seems good, 'cept what's listed above.
What are your DREAMS? Whether you've seen a cool feature on another Archive, or it's something you're not even sure is possible, we want to hear from you.
• I'll think on this and get back to you.

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bob_fish Tue 11 Jan 2011 05:06PM UTC

I'm delighted to find that I can already embed my existing illustrations, as I often illustrate my own stories myself.
One feature I'd welcome would be a warning icon/label for illustration that isn't worksafe, or a ratings system. Why a warning for pictures when we already have warnings for text? Because when a naughty drawing comes up on your screen, people might see it from several metres away. Naughty or otherwise mature-audiences-only text is less public. So some people might value extra warning for R-rated visuals.

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