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Light the Fire Within

Chapter 2: Packin' On Back to Jackson

Summary:

What Joel and Ellie talk about on the way home to Jackson.

Notes:

(See the end of the chapter for notes.)

Chapter Text

July 2024

Between Salt Lake City, Utah and Jackson, Wyoming

“So do I detect a taste pattern in the Millers?” Ellie asked, thinking of Maria, and of Sarah’s multiracial looks in the photo she’d stolen from Tommy kept safe for Joel. “Y’all dig African American chicks?” She asked, in her best (but still god-awful) gruff Texan twang.

“Not just those 'chicks',” Joel answered. “Which I think you can put two and two together about in my case.”

Ellie nodded. I knew you and Tess were doing it! Her mature decision to refrain from triumphantly yelling that out was wasted. It was clear from Joel’s answering eyeroll that he knew exactly what she was thinking.

“Don’t know if either of us has a type. But we’ve both surely seen the appeal of some ladies answerin’ that description over the years.”

“Me too,” Ellie whispered inside her head. Or so she thought.

“That right?” Joel asked gently. I knew it. The way she talks about Riley.

A deep exhale found its way out of Ellie. Did I say that out loud?

“I loved Riley,” said Ellie.  If she’d been willing to look at Joel, she would have seen him simply keeping his eyes on her. “I mean, she was my best friend. But I was… into her. She was black."

“I know she was. You showed me that picture,” Joel answered. “And if you’re tellin’ me what I think you’re tellin’ me, Riley sounds like a hell of a girlfriend.”

“Thanks for not being a bigger asshole than normal about it, Joel.”

“Well, thanks trustin’ me with that,” said Joel. “I know tellin’ people that can be scary. And I know for a fact you don’t need to worry about Tommy, either. And Maria’s probably fine. Tommy wouldn’t marry someone who wasn’t.”

“That tracks with Tommy from what I saw,” said Ellie. “Plus, he seemed pretty sad about Bill and Frank.” Joel nodded.

“It’s better now than when we were growin’ up,” Joel suggested. “Most folks have other things to worry about. Maybe they lost their faith in God, which was the main excuse. At least a God that gives a shit about things like that.”

“Did you care? Before?” asked Ellie. She hastily added, “It’s OK if you did. I’ve heard people can get a clue and gain wisdom in their old age.”

“Know what? Nope. At least not after I gave it any thought. Which was maybe around your age, or a little younger. Around the time all the kids started thinkin' about who they liked."

"So, before that you cared?"

"I dunno, more like I didn't even have an opinion," He paused. "I might have automatically bought that it was wrong till I thought about it, the way kids automatically believe things they're told."

"And your parents thought it was wrong?"

"They never said anything like that,” said Joel. “Maybe because we weren’t real serious about church. They said everyone should mind their own business, but be careful about what you tell people, because you could get fired for just supportin' gay people."

"That's not too bad."

"That was more when we were kids. Tommy and I both knew people growin’ up. Open secret type stuff, mostly. We didn't care. By the time the Outbreak happened, we were in 30s. We flat-out didn't care, and things were getting better."

"How so?" Ellie asked.

"It got more and more common to know gay people. I mean, to know they were gay. Celebrities, even. More people started to think the discrimination wasn't fair."

"Especially the military. Tommy had friends in the Army, where it literally had to be a secret.”

“That blows. How did that even work?” Ellie demanded.

“Ask him when we get back,” Joel said, not remembering the details. “I do know Bill would've been kicked out if they found out. Batshit insane, right, Kiddo?"

“Seriously fucked up.”

Bill and Frank had both served during the Vietnam era, Bill as a combat engineer and Frank as a medic. Joel still had no idea how Bill had pulled it off, knowing what he was like after the Outbreak.

“I’m not sure I’m any role model for... enlightenment,” Joel continued. “But discrimination? Not too many people in Texas had a problem with my mixed heritage and Tommy’s. A few. But some sure had a problem with Sarah’s.”

“I’m sorry, Joel. That’s even more seriously fucked up,” Ellie said.

“That it was, and thank you, but it’s all part of the same thing,” said Joel. “In my parents' time, mixed marriage was illegal in some states.” Which, except for Sarah, would have been the right move in our case. He quickly added, though Ellie understood that his ex-wife was still a difficult topic, “If Sarah was born a little over 20 years earlier, she’d be a bastard in certain states, even with her parents married somewhere it was legal.”

“I’m literally running out of ways to say that shit is fucked.”

“I ran out long ago,” said Joel. 

“So if I ever had time for any rules about who you can love, who you can marry, what you can do behind closed doors, that was over when she came along. I’m sorry if I made you worry how I’d react.”

“This is the part where I confess that you didn’t make me scared but I was chicken anyway.”

“How about a thing where I bet you’ve figured this out, but let’s put it on the record: All I give a shit about is that you’re happy and get treated right. To the extent my mind every went there about either of you, that’s all I ever wanted for my girls.”

“You have my permission to keep your delicate senior mind sheltered.”

“This is where I embarrass you by promising that I got your back, like always, but I will do everything in my power to avoid thinking about you and any closed door. And promise to never discuss such things unless absolutely necessary.”

“Yes, please. Ew!”

“Not because you like girls. Just because you’re my girl.”

I didn’t get to see you as an actual little girl. This will not shield you from being my little girl in this way.

“I can live with that, Old Man.”

~*~

“Embarrassing old man question time,” Joel announced. “Is it just girls for you, so far? Only reason I’m askin’ is to figure out our closed door and sleepover policies.” Joel chose a moment when Ellie was driving the Durango, so she couldn’t hit him.

“Just girls,” said Ellie, “All my life, so it’s not like that shit in Colorado ruined me for dudes, or anything. I could never imagine being into dick. No offense.”

“None taken. I'm happy pretendin' you're never into anything,” said Joel. “And uh, me neither. Doesn’t bother me none, the concept. But zero interest, ever. And (brace yourself) I've gotten asked, on occasion. By likable enough guys." That last bit he hastily added to assure Ellie that these opportunities had nothing to do with the couple of narrow escapes from potential assaults he'd very briefly mentioned. "I think the verdict's in at my age."

“Pretty much set in stone. Fossilized. Like you, you old fucker,” said Ellie. “Although, not a fucker of dudes."

“Keep that up, Ma’am, and I’m gonna act as your wingman when we get back to Jackson.”


Notes:

Chapter title: from "Jackson Hole" by C.W. McCall.

In this series Joel and Ellie develop a "talking about talking" technique to get around their avoidant styles.

HINT, HINT, to Mr. Druckman, Mr. Mazin, and Ms Gross. Whoever fell in love with the "Joel is the last to know Ellie's gay" notion.

Wherever Joel was on the subject in 2003, neither canon Joel (as written otherwise) could live close to Ellie in a tiny community without noticing (or hearing) she likes girls by age 17. He is proactively protective. He wants Ellie to have a happy youth. He's going to be trying to figure out who likes whom. They'll both think they're being subtle. They'll both be wrong. Even if Joel could possibly miss every single Ellie eye-roll when he mentions boys for YEARS, he couldn't stay oblivious if he sees Ellie interacting with a girl she likes. Plus, other people would notice and speculate. TBTB hand-waved something preposterous to serve other narrative agendas.

That aside, a gay-friendly Joel isn't the stuff of sci-fi despite him being born in 1967 in Texas, in a stereotypically Catholic subculture, even in 2003.

I'm HBO Joel's age. I had LGBTQ-friendly contemporaries from Joel-like backgrounds by the 1980s (high school and college). And even older, from the Deeper South. Admittedly my background is in liberal metro areas and "diverse" schools and colleges. But someone like Joel being fine on LGBTQ issues would never have been shocking. You can flip a coin on it, but him being oblivious for years in Jackson is preposterous.

HBO Joel was 35 for most of 2003, parenting a multiracial daughter, from the type of marriage that had only been guaranteed legal the year he was born. If he ever cared, that might have mattered, as the 2003 case Lawrence v. Texas may have caught his attention. Game Joel was a millennial, around 23 when the first state legalized gay marriage. By his Outbreak year momentum was really gathering for marriage equality.

Beyond 2003: Political life stopped then, but life didn't. Some survivors likely calcified their conservatism, while some got perspective real fast on what's worth worrying about.

And some Texans, of course, favored gay rights all along, like our Joel and Tommy (though by Joel's admission they weren't really engaged in it). Part of THIS FIC'S Joel's rationale for acceptance is his distaste for relationship discrimination is his daughter being the product of a multiracial marriage. In lieu of pop culture references, here's some political history (that is sadly returning to relevance as I write this revision in August 2025).

Our federal system enforces nationwide constitutional rights, but the states decide on rights that aren't settled nationally. In the 1967 case Loving vs. Virginia (named after plaintiffs Mr. and Mrs. Loving), the U.S. Supreme Court invalidated state laws forbidding interracial marriage.

The Supreme Court invalidated bans on LGBTQ sex in Lawrence v. Texas in June 2003. Laws banning same-sex marriage were not struck down till 2015's Obergefell v. Hodges. The ruling law before that was the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act, which banned federal recognition of same sex marriage but let states allow it or ban it -- but also let states refuse to recognize same sex marriages from other states. A stunning exception to the "full faith and credit clause" requiring states to honor contracts enacted in other states. See the hospital show storylines set in states hostile to gay marriage where the homophobic family bans the patient's spouse from the hospital. Since Joel was in his late teens when DOMA was enacted, it would logically get woven into his general distaste for discriminatory laws.

Bill and Frank unwelcome in the military unless closeted: Being LGBTQ disqualified one from service till the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy of 1993. After that, closeted LGBTQ service members could serve and the military could only "ask" in specific cases, but if their orientation became known they'd be discharged. Tommy was in the Army then, deployed in 1991, so was qualified to opine. DADT was repealed in 2013, allowing openly LGBTQ service. Many accomplished service members challenged DADT at the risk or loss of their careers. One high-profile member who served closeted, then openly, was Navy Lieutenant Pete Buttigieg, who joined 2 years before the repeal. Later known as "Mayor Pete" (of South Bend, Indiana, elected while openly gay in a generally conservative state), he ran for the Democratic nomination for US President in 2020, then was appointed by President Biden as U.S. Secretary of Transportation, the first openly gay cabinet member. DADT was another time-buying compromise signed by Clinton.

As of August 2025, there are Republican lawmakers calling for both rulings to be overturned and for states to be reempowered to regulate marriage on the basis of race and gender.

Notes:

Work Title: A slogan of Salt Lake City.