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It began, as many tales in a galaxy far far away do, with a friendship gone wrong. 

While other studies have focused on the temporary death of the Skywalker family, one study that came up later was how Poe Dameron fit into it all. Poe already had his part to play, of course, in the story of the Resistance, as the man that Leia Organa entrusted with the future of the movement to defeat Kylo Ren and later, the Final Order. 

Poe Dameron is a complex, contested figure as it is — his role in the mutiny against the late Amilyn Holdo is one example, but one of the parts of his history that is most controversial is his relationship with Kylo Ren. 

***

Poe Dameron’s story began three years before the battle of Jakku, as well as the birth of Ben Solo himself. He was born on Yavin IV, the same place where the First Death Star was narrowly thwarted trying to destroy the planet. It is said that aspect was one contributing factor to Kylo Ren’s reluctance to use Starkiller Base — a rare moment of mercy from an already erratic man. 

***

The following transcript is taken from the audio logs of Kylo Ren, recovered from First Order archives:

KYLO REN: General Hux is a fool. A complete and utter fool, though I suppose that is nothing new. As much as I trust in the Supreme Leader’s wisdom, I still wonder what exactly he was thinking keeping that rabid cur around for longer than need be. Granted, it was a leftover from when Snoke still had to answer to Brendol Hux, but even so, surely Snoke can do away with nepotism…

I digress. Apparently, the First Order wants to build a system-destroying superweapon, and…I do not see the point of it. The Supreme Leader claims we have to destroy Skywalker no matter what the cost, but as much as I agree that I’d love to see Skywalker destroyed…everything about this abomination is personally offensive, as loathe as I am to admit it, and scientifically offensive! How exactly is the laser supposed to travel through hyperspace? Would it not possibly tear the galaxy apart? In addition, why do we need to destroy multiple planets? I can only assume that Hux is as much stupid as he is slimy, because I cannot see the point in destroying planets that could potentially serve as our allies against the Resistance. Besides, as shown by the destruction of Alderaan…people only rose against the Empire, contributing to its destruction. I doubt we’ll ever have a nice cup of caffa with the Resistance, but at bare minimum…at least it shows intelligence is not Hux’s strong suit. 

I did make an allusion to Grandfather in calling this monstrosity a “technological terror” and saying “the inability to destroy a system is insignificant next to the power of the Force”. He, of course, did not get the reference — nor did Captain Phasma. 

(Sighs)

But there is more, of course. I feel it again — the call to the Light. It reminds me of stories my mother told me about Alderaan before its destruction, as well as the knowledge that Yavin IV, the homeplanet of Poe Dameron, could have been destroyed by the First Death Star. A cosmos without Poe Dameron is scarcely worth thinking about — though I would never admit it to the Supreme Leader, or anyone but myself. 

I am not a good Knight of Ren. This is just one example of many. I can only hope that I can hold out as long as I can. I must not fail. And in the meantime, I must find some way to implore Snoke to see reason. Perhaps there is a different way to take out our enemies — though even I doubt Snoke can be reasoned with. His hatred for Skywalker runs deeper than even mine. 

***

It is not completely implausible that Kylo Ren would feel unease at the idea of using Starkiller Base. Given that his mother was a survivor of Alderaan, and his best friend and future beloved was a resident of a near-casualty of the First Death Star, that would be one thing. Another aspect was, simply, the fact that Yavin IV had many happy memories for both children. Ben Solo visited up until the untimely death of Poe’s mother, Shara Bey, after which Poe’s father, Kes Dameron, became withdrawn and closed himself off to almost everyone, including family friend Lu’lo Lampar. 

Poe was born three years before the battle of Jakku, and was raised by his grandfather while his parents (his mother a pilot, his father part of Han Solo’s Pathfinders) fought against the Empire. Shara Bey was incredibly devoted to the cause, and it took an intervention on Lu’lo’s behalf for her to go home. In addition, she showed many traits that would pass onto her son besides piloting, including compassion for others.

”She was fearless,” Lu’lo Lampar said. “Devoted to the cause to a fault. And not only was she a gifted pilot, but she was also uncommonly kind. I saw a lot of that in her son. I still do.”

As a child, Poe Dameron had that same uncommon kindness, and a cheerful, friendly nature. With curly black hair and a sort of enthusiasm for other people, he got along well with Ben Solo despite their differences, including in age (though that evened out as the two reached adulthood).

”Ben cried a lot when he was a child,” Lu’lo said. “I mean, of course he did; babies cry. There was something about Poe, though, where he ended up smiling just looking at him.” He laughed as he added, “And occasionally pulled on his hair. I think he had a certain fascination for Poe’s hair.”

As children, Poe was very much someone Ben looked up to, as younger children do older children. In addition, Ben formed deep attachments to Shara Bey and Kes Dameron. Unfortunately, the day Shara Bey was shot down on the job may have been the beginning of when the seeds of darkness were planted.

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When it comes to Shara Bey’s death, it may have been the catalyst for much of what followed for Ben Solo, Poe Dameron, and the galaxy at large. Indeed, when tracing back everything that led to Ben Solo’s tragic fall, it all comes back to that one factor: the shooting down of Shara Bey while she was on the job at the Yavin IV defense force.

”The worst part about it was that it was an accident,” Kes Dameron says in an interview. “It was a complete accident. She was trying to reason with a runaway trying to get medicine for his daughter — I don’t even blame him for it, necessarily. But his gunner got spooked at something, and fired…it was supposed to be a warning shot. He didn’t want to kill her. But his hand shook, and…”

Shara Bey later died of her injuries in medbay. It was said that her last words to her husband were telling him to take care of Poe and not hate the men who did it. The men involved ultimately were arrested, though they were given a slightly reduced sentence due to their roles in Shara Bey’s death being accidental. 

“I had nightmares about it for a while,” the gunner said. “She didn’t even do anything wrong. She was just trying to help us. If I could do one incident over again, I’d make sure my kriffing hand didn’t shake like that…”

As for her son, Poe, and the boy who looked up to her, Ben…they were shaken by her death. 

“I used to have nightmares about corpses coming up out of the ground,” Poe Dameron says. “You have to keep in mind that I was eight, Ben was five, and we had no idea what was going on. It was our first experience with death. And the fact I knew my mom for only such a short time…I didn’t first meet her until I was three, so I only knew her for five years. I will say that I’m grateful for those five years knowing her. Very.”

Ben Solo, meanwhile, took his grief in a different direction, attempting to do the impossible: resurrect the dead. 

***

This was not the first time that a Skywalker attempted to save someone from death, though in the case of Anakin Skywalker, he sought to prevent a terrible future while Ben Solo sought to correct the past. Unfortunately, Force Healing was not foolproof. Depending on the way that the deceased appeared, Force Healing could be either incredibly easy or even fatal to the one using it. 

“Ben…he didn’t start out as creepy,” Lando Calrissian said. “I wouldn’t even say he was a bad kid, just traumatized. But he slipped into some aspects of his behavior that scared his family and friends mostly because we were scared for his safety. He kept practicing Force Healing — we didn’t know exactly where he got all this. Where a five year old was learning all this. And he at first started practicing it on dying animals. There was this dying bird with a broken wing, and Ben actually fell unconscious trying to heal it. One of the scariest moments of my life.”

It had been that decision that ultimately led Leia Organa to send her son to the Academy that Luke Skywalker ran. It hadn’t been fear of him that led her to do it as much as fear for him. Leia thought that Luke could help her son learn to control his abilities, though that did not stop Ben Solo from resuming his attempts at studying Force Healing at the age of eighteen. 

“Poe was hurt,” the redeemed and resurrected Ben Solo said in an interview. “He’d gotten into an abusive relationship. Obviously, abuse is always the perpetrator’s fault; it is a crime. But my eighteen year old self thought it was my fault for not being able to rescue Poe in any way, that if I’d been able to resurrect Shara, I would have been able to keep Poe from going to Kijimi. They…the Spice Runners of Kijimi exploited a sixteen year old boy, a child. In my eyes, they’re just Snoke and Palpatine without the Force powers.”

In a way, it could be argued that Ben Solo’s desire to protect Poe Dameron, almost to a fault, led him to take risks in controlling life and death. Even as Kylo Ren, he had constructed a clone of himself prior to the events of Exegol, similar to Palpatine albeit for different reasons. Palpatine’s reasons were selfish, but there was some degree of selflessness in Ben Solo’s desire to save Shara, twisted as it was by anger towards Skywalker, desire for power, and self-loathing. 

It was one of many things that contributed to Ben Solo’s slide into darkness, as well as Luke Skywalker being subject to an attempted mind  rape by Palpatine in an attempt to make Luke kill his nephew and thus, cause Luke’s fall. Revenge on Palpatine’s part for his temporary death on the Second Death Star. 

“I just wish I’d known this earlier,” Ben said in an interview. “After all, if I’d known…I’m as anti-victim-blaming as one can be, and it’s still so shameful that I wanted to kill my uncle over something done to him, that he resisted at the last minute. At least he knows now that he has nothing to be ashamed of. Palpatine was a weak, cowardly bastard, but my uncle…he was incredibly brave, stronger than he gave himself credit for.”

In other words, what happened was a perfect storm for Ben Solo to become Kylo Ren. Guilt, powerlessness, betrayal, love, a desire to right wrongs — it was a way he imitated his grandfather, this time without realizing it. For all Ben Solo was no Vader, there were some instances where they were more similar than they thought. 

Ben Solo ultimately left Poe Dameron behind when he left to find Snoke and join the Knights of Ren. According to Ben, he’d had a feeling Poe would be broken by the First Order  themselves. 

“Poe doesn’t know how rare he is,” Ben said in an interview. “When Snoke and Palpatine were in my head, I felt everything in the galaxy that hurt. Even in times like this, Poe stood out because of how good he really is. Even his worst decisions…he loved and wanted to help people. I had a feeling that it wouldn’t survive the journey I had to take if he came with me.”

***

As well-intentioned as the action was, it only separated the two of them, driving a chasm between them that led to their inevitable collision at Jakku. The seeds of darkness only sprouted. 

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Jakku was not Poe Dameron’s first encounter with Kylo Ren, if you could count the brief glimpse of each other that they had on Dameron’s mission to rescue Gial Ackbar, who later died in Kylo Ren’s assault on the Raddus.

”I still remember it pretty vividly,” Dameron said in an interview. “I was trying to get away, and there was this brief…moment when our ships nearly collided with each other and our eyes met. It was a good thing we didn’t actually collide or there would have been some sort of trouble, at least."

In terms of whether it would have been a death or an earlier confrontation where they had to acknowledge what exactly had happened since Solo’s absence, that is unknown. In terms of whether or not Poe suspected Kylo’s true identity, the former had an interesting answer. 

“At the time, the idea of Ben joining the First Order was unthinkable,” he says. “I mean, I knew him. He was as devoted to the Jedi Order as one could possibly be; one of his greatest stresses was feeling like he would never be the man Luke Skywalker was. Even when I ultimately found out on Crait, there was something about it that didn’t make sense. Ben Solo was and is a good man; even the idea of him becoming Kylo Ren had something wrong with it.”

Despite Kylo Ren sharing the first name of an alternate persona that Solo made up during his childhood play with Poe Dameron, Dameron brushed it off at first as a coincidence. It is likely that a combination of love for Ben as well as his disbelief that a good man like Ben would fall contributed to his feelings, not so much denial as skepticism and hoping for the best.

***

The meeting between Kylo Ren and Poe Dameron on Jakku ultimately began with a single shot fired. The shot heard ‘round Jakku, some have called it. 

“I’m not usually the vengeful type,” Dameron says. Indeed, Poe Dameron is very much a sort who is outspoken against the concept of revenge, not unlike his late mother and her principles. “Even when Uncle Lu’lo died, I was more interested in honoring his memory than anything else. It would be what Lu’lo wanted, I thought. And even catching up with Oddy Muva, who indirectly contributed to his death…I didn’t like what Oddy did, but he was also a sentient being who was hurting, who was threatened by the First Order into compliance. I couldn’t really hate him, even if I didn’t like what he did. I think that’s the key: your opponents are people too and sometimes they’re hurting. Well, I don’t know if Palpatine was ever hurting, but you get the idea.” He goes on to add, “But something about seeing Lor San Tekka butchered like that — I lost it. Ben…he froze me and the blaster bolt in place. It was a pretty scary experience, being unable to move. I’m glad he did freeze it in time, though; for everything that happened, killing the man I love would have been unbearable.”

Solo weighs in on the incident as well. “I didn’t like seeing Poe roughed up by the stormtroopers,” he said. “I had to stay stoic, because I didn’t want anyone getting a hint of what was going on. They probably would have gotten even more of an idea of what was happening. As for Tekka…it’s one of many things I regret doing. He was just trying to help me. I wish I could have at least not killed him. Listened to him. People gave me more chances than I deserved.”

***

One thing that has been striking about the first encounter between Kylo Ren and Poe Dameron was an action that Kylo took during it. During the encounter, Poe was thrown to his knees in a way clearly meant to send a message to the people of Tuanul: this could be you. You are vulnerable, you are not invincible, and your attempts at heroism are futile. It has also been speculated that it was an attempt to send a message to the people of Tuanul regarding their decision to offer shelter to two Resistance fighters. 

“In a way,” Ben Solo says, “I can understand what Obi-Wan Kenobi meant by ‘only a Sith deals in absolutes’. He said it after my grandfather said if Obi-Wan wasn’t with him, he was against him, and while I don’t think Sith have a monopoly on black and white thinking, I think they do tend to divide things into assets and threats. Snoke was like that too; he was raised by a Sith, in the loosest sense of the word, and he took some of their dogma with him.” He adds, “It’s not an excuse for what I did, but it does reinforce how kriffed up the First Order was; Snoke told me before the mission that even civilians who willingly sheltered ‘terrorists' were dangerous and needed to be eliminated. He really bought into this whole idea you were dangerous if you didn’t pick a side, that even neutrality, even the slightest hint of compassion for the enemy, was a sign of being complicit. That mentality good as killed my grandmother, and it led me to kill innocents who really were just scared in the end.”

Further investigations showed that this mentality also led to the justifications of using Starkiller Base on Hosnia Prime, with an added belief that the Rebellion had killed just as many Imperials with families, so any violence and death against them was justified a thousandfold. 

But during Poe Dameron’s capture, the scene was very much set up like something out of a classic holo: the hero being forced to kneel before the villain, no doubt being manhandled in some way during their capture. Kylo Ren, however, took a route that has become an iconic image in the story of these two: he knelt down in front of Poe Dameron. 

“He deserved a more dignified position than that,” Solo says in an interview. “I was able to get the information I needed from him without pain; looking back on the incident, I was trying to keep from torturing him as long as possible — I tried not referring to it as such for as long as possible, but I know in the end that it was that. But I remember there was a part of me that wanted to put off the interrogation as long as I possibly could. I couldn’t hurt him. People have had misconceptions that I hated him, but I never did. I very rarely hated any of my loved ones I had to go up against, and he was no exception.” He adds, “I knew what I would do would break him, without a doubt. I knew I was adding to more of his pain and even as Kylo Ren, there was a part of me that was repulsed by it.”

As for the massacre of the villagers, besides the with-us-or-against-us mentality that made the abhorrent acceptable, it is notable that Poe Dameron was not forced to watch the massacre. Other monsters in history would have forced others to watch — Darth Vader, despite having Leia as his own daughter, had no hesitation in forcing her to watch the destruction of her homeplanet. It is confirmed in an interview that for all Kylo Ren’s worship of Darth Vader, there were conscious steps he took where he tried to differentiate himself from his grandfather even before he killed Snoke and became Supreme Leader. 

“I think there was a part of me that still remembered my mother’s nightmares, and so I found the idea of doing…that to anyone was abhorrent,” Solo says. “Even with Snoke, the thing he did to Rey that gets to me the most in hindsight was forcing her to watch the fleet be destroyed, and that wasn’t even the worst thing he did to her. It just got to me, the idea of forcing someone to watch. I’m grateful to that one stormtrooper that managed to escort Poe up the ramp away from the massacre. He didn’t deserve to see it. I still remember how he begged and pleaded for them to be spared. He…well, of course he did; he’d defend the stranger he just met yesterday. And even though I didn’t like to admit it, him just pleading for them to live did haunt parts of my nightmares.”

***

That, of course, was far from the only thing Kylo Ren did to Poe Dameron. Poe Dameron’s account of events is clear in his Flight Log, and he was genuinely angry at Kylo Ren even though the worst he wanted for him was a prison cell. (As established later, after Crait, his feelings became more complex) But there is more to the interrogation than the flight log suggests: namely, the First Order records of it. 

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When it comes to the origins of Ben Solo’s formidable telepathic powers, unlike with other aspects, there doesn’t seem to be a genetic or learned explanation for it. When Ben was young, he was quite sensitive to the thoughts and emotions of others, explaining exactly how he was able to read Poe Dameron’s mind painlessly on Jakku. 

"He was always good at that,” Lando Calrissian says. “Sometimes it unsettled me how easily he could pick up on things, but I never thought he’d actually use it to harm anyone else.”

Indeed, the idea that he do so was not entirely his own thinking. According to records recovered from the Knights of Ren’s old ship, the Night Buzzard, it had been Snoke’s idea to turn Ben’s talents into a weapon to get information, but Ben hadn’t used it until his mission to retrieve the Mind Splinter. 

Before that, his talents had been used for various means, including informal detective work as well as finding ways to comfort Poe Dameron. 

“I had nightmares after Kijimi,” Poe says. “Stuff like not being able to save Sela Trune. She hated me, but like Oddy, she was a person and she was hurting. Ben…sometimes he’d use his mind abilities to try and help me with my nightmares. Sometimes I wished I could actually pull him into my dreams like in holos we watched once.”

Nevertheless, with Snoke’s suggestions, Ben Solo, upon christening himself Kylo Ren, turned powers previously used for good into powers for evil. It was a slow decline; records show that Kylo Ren was repulsed by his first interrogation and it was only over time he became desensitized to the process. The only time he felt something similar was his interrogation of Poe — his interrogations of Poe Dameron and Rey Skywalker were the last ones prior to his interrogation of the Wookiee Chewbacca onboard the Steadfast. 

***

The following transcript of Poe Dameron’s interrogation by Kylo Ren is taken from the First Order archives. Despite damage to the Finalizer at Batuu that led it to be replaced with the Steadfast, the logs are in pristine condition. 

KYLO REN: I had no idea that we had the best pilot in the Resistance onboard. Comfortable?

POE DAMERON: Not really. 

Footsteps, as Kylo Ren steps close to Poe.

KYLO REN (softly): I’m impressed. No one’s been able to get out of you what you did with the map.

POE DAMERON: You might want to rethink your technique.

There are the sounds of sputtering, hissing — and then Poe being slammed against a rack. A groan of pain is audibly heard. 

KYLO REN: Where is it?

POE DAMERON (labored): The Resistance will not be intimidated by you.

KYLO REN: Where is it?

POE DAMERON: (Screams)

KYLO REN (softly): You…were looking for him? After all this time? Looking for Ben Solo?

POE DAMERON: What have you done to him? Did you kill him, like you did the villagers? Like Tekka?

KYLO REN: He was weak and foolish and broken. He deserves to be dead. 

POE DAMERON: He was one million the man you are! (A cry of pain)

KYLO REN: All time is transitory and mine equally so, Commander Dameron. Where is the map? (softer) We don’t have to go through this. You can just tell me. Tell me…

POE DAMERON: Never. 

KYLO REN: I should have known. 

(From Poe, a grunt of exertion)

KYLO REN: Of course. Of course it was there. A BB unit. Your BB unit. Taking a leaf out of General Organa’s holobook, are you?

POE DAMERON: You’re…a monster. 

KYLO REN: Yes, Commander, I am. (A pause) You did so beautifully. So wonderfully. You were so brave. The Resistance is truly blessed by the Force to have someone like you.

POE DAMERON: You’re going to face justice for your crimes. 

KYLO REN: We’ll see. Rest now, Poe. You were brave. I salute you, one legend to another. 

Footsteps, echoing out. This is no doubt where he reports his results to General Hux.

***

The visuals accompanying the audio have been cause for discussion as well: Kylo Ren not removing his helmet the whole time, the facial expressions that Poe makes, just for example. When asked to describe what happened during the interrogation, Poe Dameron was understandably hesitant. 

“It was kind of like there was a landscape in my head,” Poe said. “The Yavin IV skies. And I was in some sort of dogfight with Ben. It looped over and over again…it was a lot like when he used to create landscapes in my head just to ward off the nightmares, but perverted. I…I still love Ben with all my heart and I believe he has redeemed himself. I just wish this, among other things, didn’t happen.”

Ben Solo agrees. “The Finalizer was effectively my Mustafar,” he said. “I never wanted to hurt Poe. I still don’t. But I suppose it doesn’t change the outcome. I only hope he knows it wasn’t his fault, and he’s an incredibly brave man. And yes, I love him with all my heart.”

***

It was later that Poe Dameron escaped due to the aid of the former trooper known later as Finn. It was speculated and later confirmed by Ben Solo that part of his negligence in holding Poe Dameron prisoner was indeed guilt, and that he had no desire for BB-8, Poe’s droid, to be harmed if only because BB-8 was Poe’s droid. It is obvious that as twisted as his intentions had become, there was a part of Kylo Ren that held some affection for his old friend and love, even if the outcome did not change. 

There were intermittent encounters, near-misses leading up to Crait, and on Crait. They were only the build-up to more complex encounters prior to Exegol.