Chapter Text
Please stop with the Word of God: November 14, 2024
pro jedi fans speeding right past the actual movies to uphold the word of god as the only correct interpretation
like yes attachment does include love. that’s literally a significant aspect of the plot in the prequels. glad to know that a huge part flew over your heads because you care more about intent than execution
anakin’s attachments became unhealthy [as darth vader] because he wasn’t taught or allowed to express them in a healthy manner. like the jedi in the PT needed to get their heads out of their ass, disconnect themselves from a corrupt Senate and actually help the people instead of all the wealthy elites. like. why can the jedi help the hutts but not the literal slaves? babes that’s not peacekeeping that’s aiding and abetting slave owners like for peace you sometimes have to say no to slavery.
hope that helps
anyway I don’t give a fuck what george lucas has said, death to the author
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Appendix
My hashtags: 'you all do my head in with your blatant wilful twisting of the text to make the jedi unproblematic angels. they are not. it is a cornerstone of the prequel triology ty'
Peer Review:
@anidala-for-ever's reblog: Anakin's attachments became unhealthy because he himself was an unhealthy (mentally) person. He went through great trauma at his most formative years (slavery, traumatic separation from parent, the Battle of Naboo), his caretakers didn't know how to help him and didn't try that hard to find out and also exposed him to more trauma and violence (both legends and canon raise some questions about how Padawans are raised and taught), an evil person was grooming him.
@riana-one's reblog:
Anakin's attachments became unhealthy the way someone who had a healthy limb cut off fears the butcher's blade.
Anakin, even as a slave, was a brave, bright hearted boy that thought nothing of helping strangers even at the risk of his own life because his mom taught him that the problem with the galaxy was people didn't help each other.
And the Jedi told him that was wrong, bad, and people were going to suffer because he missed his mom- who was left behind as a slave.
The Jedi do not understand love, they fear it and avoid it.
When your dogma considers a child's love for a parent, dangerous something has gone wrong.
And yeah, the Jedi had every moral, ethical, and legal obligation to attempt to free Shmi Skywalker if only on the basis that she fed, sheltered, and aided one of their own.
Attachment does equal/include love: November 28, 2024
if I see one more post where people whitewash the prequel trilogy jedi order's definition of 'attachment' I will -
*remembers threatening violence is impolite*
pray for their hot drinks to always be luke-warm
the prequel trilogies clearly show that the prequel trilogy’s order’s understanding of attachment has been warped to prohibit healthy expressions of emotion and love, but people will genuinely be like:
'canonically, attachment doesn’t equal love :)’
then what fucking films did I watch?
there’s an argument to be made that the attachment originally prohibited was the toxic kind, but by the time of the prequel trilogy it has boiled down to apathy and callousness.
like in the phantom menace they’re like: hm a child is afraid for his enslaved mother. that’s the path to becoming evil!
like anakin left shmi and let her go to become a jedi, but the council is like: hm, you’re still concerned for your mother’s safety. who is a slave. suspicious 🧐
in what world does the prequel trilogy’s definition of attachment not, canonically, include love?
if it doesn’t for you, sure, have fun. but that’s called an au.
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Peer Review
@lady-of-the-spirit's hashtags: #if you think anakin being worried about his mother left in slavery is an example of unhealthy attachment idk what to say to you
@narcissusneverknewme's hashtags: #the! order! was! flawed! #that is not a statement we should hand-wave away #they were FLAWED and some of those flaws were fatal!
@demona9999's hashtags: #seriously when people side with the Jedi about attachment I want to scream #and yeah they didnt change at all! #like didnt reflect and maybe consider that banning attachment might be detrimental after everything that happened #jsut expected Luke to not care about anything but the mission #which may I remind you was patricide that they lied to him about
@anidala-for-ever's reblog: This continued in the Original Trilogy. Obi-Wan and Yoda behaved as if it was the end of the world for Luke to want to save his friends who were in the hands of the Empire. They knew Leia was their " second hope" too. They kept secret Luke's parentage as well, exposing him to danger and manipulation , a direct mirror to not allowing Jedi younglings ( that were recruited as toddlers) to have contact with family
Anakin is intelligent, actually: December 2, 2024
on the attachment rule, I particularly hate the take that ‘attachment clearly doesn’t equal love, anakin was just stupid’!
it’s 1) not accurate and 2) anakin’s intelligent.
I just.
argh.
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Peer Review
@darkgryphon-220's reply: this is a guy who was smart enough to build a complex droid out of scrap parts when he was 9, if Anakin really didn’t know the difference, that says more about the orders teaching skills than anything
@anakinsafterlife's hashtags: #uh yeah #i'm pretty sure anakin knew the rules of the order he was living in #obi-wan told him repeatedly not to get involved with padme #or even think about her too much #reminder that to the jedi there is such a thing as a thought crime #also anakin was like many of us #a bit socially awkward #but a genius in his chosen fields #i.e. not stupid
Interesting discussion about KOTOR here.
Some other reblogs I found interesting:
@kingommin's reblog:
Yeah. The movies make clear that he and Padmé can’t be together and then we have this:
John Williams
It’s a star-crossed set of lovers really where the lovers are separated by class, or by family as they are Romeo & Juliet, or by rank as they are in Episode II.
Hayden Christensen
He understands as a Jedi he’s not allowed to fall in love even though he feels so passionately for Padme and it’s this sort of eh conflicting emotions.
Ewan McGregor
Well, there are Jedi rules you know and one of them is that you don’t you don’t fall in love, and he breaks those rules.
Then there is the ROTS novel where Obi-Wan tells Padmé he pretends he doesn’t know, is not going to tell the Council, and reminds Padmé that she and Anakin can NEVER be together while Anakin is a Jedi
@the-far-bright-center's reblogs:
1
It's possible for people to have jobs and careers but still be permitted to experience the support of loving families and romantic relationships. In fact, for some individuals (like Anakin!) they may even have a better chance of 'controling' themselves if they can openly rely on the emotional support of close family members and loved ones. Sure, Force users need to learn control and regulation of emotions, but to claim that they can never concentrate and control themselves while simultaneously having personal family or romantic ties is just plain wrong. Anakin and Padme's situation during the Twilight of the Republic didn't HAVE to be that way. It's telling surely that the Original Trilogy era depicts the Skywalker family as being openly loving and SUCCESSFUL in saving the galaxy with the help and support of one another. The forbidden love of the Prequels era directly contributes to the fall of the Republic, while the fact this rule isn't there anymore in the OT era directly contributes to Luke and Leia's success.
2
In AotC, Padme is under the direct impression that the Jedi forbid love. Is Padme likewise 'stupid' for thinking this? She's a galactic senator who has been on the political scene for 10 years by that point. She is clearly repeating something that is common knowledge amongst the people of the galaxy when it comes to the Jedi Order and its rules. It's also a monastic order, not just a normal religion. Monastic orders often DO have stricter rules and/or expectations of its members than the religions of the general populace. (See the Knights Templar for a direct historical real-world analogue.)
When Anakin says the line about how 'compassion is central to a Jedi's life' and therefore 'you might say we are encouraged to love'..... this is clearly him giving HIS (very cheeky) interpretation. He's being purposefully a little snarky to the Jedi and a little flirty toward Padme all at the same time. He's offering his interpretation with the full knowledge of what the rules ACTUALLY are for him, he's just making it clear he's willing to bend those rules for Padme. ;p
My view on love is fine, actually: December 18, 2024
holy shit no thinking that the jedi order PT’s interpretation of attachment includes healthy love does not mean we are people to be pitied or have a warped view of love, ffs
it means we can properly interpret the movies
‘yeah, the bond between parents and children is inherently unhealthy, that’s why it’s bad that anakin is scared for the life of his enslaved mother, WHO HE LEFT BEHIND’
these people -
once again.
the PT interpretation of attachment does not align, on screen, with the buddhist interpretation/conceptualisation. it is warped and extreme and apathetic; it is inflexible. it does include love.
kind of a crucial part of the PT.
just a little bit
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Appendix
My hashtags: 'people who just take george lucas' word as god: I pity the people who - like seriously STOP with the moral high ground just because some people engage with the text AS EXECUTED including the flawed jedi order and don't put them on a pedestal because it's a powerful institution full of people who are inherently fallible'.
Peer Review
Long reblog chain
@anidala-for-ever's reblog:
I get so upset when people claim that actually the Jedi could get married and have families, but Anakin somehow missed it because he stupid. Or Anakin alone somehow couldn't do that kind of unattached love. It's right there in the movies that Jedi recruit toddlers and raise them to devote themselves to the Order. They aren't allowed to get married or contact with their families. Anakin hadn't been allowed to get into contact with his enslaved mother for ten years and also both he and Padme knew that they weren't allowed to be openly together. In AOTC Obi-Wan point blank tells Anakin that Anakin could be thrown out of the Order for prioritizing saving Padme instead of catching the Count. The Jedi forbade all these relationships and they wouldn't have made an exception for extenuating circumstances, because they already didn't in the movies (with Anakin's mom ). People may bring up a legends Master getting married but that's not supported by the movies.
@the-far-bright-center's reblog:
The fact that the Prequels-era Jedi forbid love and the fact that Anakin struggles with Fear of Loss are two things that can and do coexist at the same time, and it's so frustrating that people can't seem to understand this. Anakin's fall doesn't happen simply because he loves people, it happens because he wants to prevent his loved ones from DYING. Anakin struggles to accept mortality, aka the part of the Jedi Code that states 'Death, yet the Force'. The fact that the Jedi Order also forbids love and family is a separate issue, it's just one that eventually intersects with his Fear of Loss when he cannot openly confide in anyone about his dreams about Padme.
Anakin's struggle with 'attachment' is therefore NOT proof that the Jedi Order was correct to forbid its members from having romantic relationships and families — quite the contrary. It's the fact that the Jedi Order forbids love and family that exacerbates Anakin's Fear of Loss and makes it easier for Palpatine to isolate him and use his fear and desperation against him.
And yes, it's true that the Jedi Order is not meant to be an exact 1:1 representation of any real-life world religion, monastic order, or philosophical belief system. So, to analyse it as if it were precisely analogous to Buddhism is not only offensive but also just plain incorrect since it ignores other prominent influences, such as the Knights Templar. The Jedi Order are a monastic order, after all, which is a rather more specific entity than just a 'religion' or a set of spiritual beliefs.
Imo, when it comes to Lucas' work, the most helpful way to understand it is by analysing the cinematography and/or the various themes that run through his films, rather than by fixating on random or contradictory statements he might make in interviews. It's particularly illuminating to look at the progression of certain themes in his works over time. And guess what? Lucas' very first feature length film, THX 1138, depicts a society that forbids love and family as unquestionably DYSTOPIAN.
[THX 1138 poster; AOTC poster: A Jedi shall not know anger, nor hatred, nor love.]
@roselani24's reblog:
This! Especially the point about the fictional Jedi Order being sourced from the Knights Templar and therefore also the Catholic Church model and not just the eastern religions. It’s an amalgamation of all of these influences! Applying one religion strictly to the Jedi Order doesn’t work.
Love is forbidden. Marriage and family is forbidden. That is fundamental to the story. Compassion cannot exist without love first. This is one of the key reasons that the Jedi come across as so cold and detached because by denying love they are trying to avoid suffering which comes from loss. Therefore they cannot relate to the people of the galaxy in any way because there are no shared experiences and losses. Eventually there may be some ways to relate as the Jedi go on multiple missions etc and gain experience outside the temple, but they cannot truly relate to people, particularly the poor and downtrodden.
Anakin can. It’s why his compassion for others made such an impact because it not just empathizing its understanding from having lived poor and enslaved on a crime infested planet. It’s why he is so passionate about helping people! It’s why Anakin exemplified a true Jedi at 9 in TPM instead of the actual Jedi. Qui-gon is the only one we meet who is even close to the Skywalker compassion of mother and son. Obi-wan is making comments about ‘pathetic life forms’ and ‘the boy is dangerous!’ when the boy in question has done nothing but help them. Yet it was Anakin Skywalker who is the most recalled Jedi from his time who made a large personal impact on the individual lives of regular people. People who offer personal anecdotes of Anakin’s impact to his son when they recognize his last name.
Let me say, empathizing and wanting to help those who have less than you or experienced something horrible, is actually a great thing! It’s important particularly when it leads to action. This compassion is very important because it demonstrates a value for life beyond ourselves. For most of us in the west and indeed if we can use this website, we are well off compared to the much of the world. Yet our comfort has also resulted in indifference by looking and not doing, but relying on groups to go in and make a difference or worse, expecting the government to send help rather than acting ourselves. Now for the average person who’s working to pay the bills and provide for their family, going to help others like that is a sacrifice. It’s losing money needed to pay our bills and supply our needs to go help someone else who is in dire straights. It’s easier to say oh the Red Cross is going in or whatever instead of caring for our communities ourselves because we are too busy taking care of ourselves. But those organizations while helpful can lose the spirit on which they are founded as money and power come into play in the organization’s leadership. This is what has happened to the Jedi Order of the PT. Individually the members can be truly compassionate but the institution itself as represented by the Jedi Council has lost its way as love and marriage was forbidden sometime in the the thousand years they are subservient to the Galactic Republic.
Anakin struggles so hard with ‘attachment’ because of trauma and the inadequate support and teaching about processing grief as exemplified by Yoda in ROTS. Because Yoda, who is over 800 years old and surrounded by short-lived peoples in comparison, has had to develop that perspective due to his own lifespan and the thousands he has known personally have died. For his own sanity, Yoda cannot be attached to the members of the order beyond being the great wise mentor who enjoys the youngest members most and shaping their minds. And YET Yoda lashes out hard when the Jedi Temple falls and all the Jedi are destroyed. He kills the clones mercilessly and goes after Sidious with a single mindedness to kill him to get justice for all those who died. Sound like someone else? Anakin maybe? Yoda doesn’t think about all his fellow council members who died fighting Sidious and their power/skill. He is the grand master! He is thinking of only his loss. His loss. He could not even apply the advice he gave Anakin earlier in the film! And ultimately Yoda is defeated and flees in shame having lost the only home he’d known, all the power he held as a grand master, and the family he’d loved without even realizing he loved them as such.
Because love values someone above self; which means attachment to them by lifting them above yourself and wanting what is good and best for them. It’s an investment in someone else. And in romantic love it also means someone wants the same for you, investing in you. When children are added the investment expands, bringing a circle of reciprocity as the parents want what is best for their child and spouse and the child is taught to honor the father and mother. Because love is amazing and can keep growing as more children come and each one is unique and loved for themselves and then their children.
But loss interrupts this; results in a hole that we instinctively know shouldn’t be there. This result in the fear of loss as we scramble to find ways to hold on, to be immortal. Anakin with all his trauma and loss goes to the extreme to prevent to loss of his beloved and unborn child—and he lost them both because he decided that love wasn’t enough to save. Because both the Jedi and Sith said don’t grieve, just accept it and only those with power can change that. The Force decided according to the Jedi; but the Sith say you can take that power from the Force for yourself. Two sides of the same coin: love doesn’t matter and won’t save you or those you love.
BUT Love does save! Luke saves Anakin with his love by believing in him, forgiving him, and then calling out to him. Because Luke came to the precipice himself and chose mercy in the last moment for his father, whom he loved even though it was not deserved. And Anakin so long hidden under the mask of Vader, responds to that love to save his son. Vader told Padme that love wouldn’t save her. Padme only wanted his love though. And it is only through love he is saved; his son is saved. And thus the galaxy.
These people can take their ‘love isn’t attachment and not really forbidden’ nonsense and ‘Anakin is just stupid and didn’t understand and was always bad/wrong from the start and didn’t really love Padme’ takes and go away.
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it's always a great time when people eloquently elaborate on my posts.
@the-far-bright-center's response to @roselani24's reblog: #EXACTLY!!!!! #round of applause for this response!!! #i have so much more to say on this topic but I will let this comment stand on its own #because it's very beautifully stated!!!
Other reblogs:
@allronix's reblog:
The argument is that "attachment" means "obsessive or possessive clinging" or "treating people with their own lives and agency as objects"
Yeah. Makes sense. So give us an example, Masters Jedi...
"We recruit infants before they can form strong memories of their parents because a child's love for their parents is attachment."
And fuck you, I'm out
Textually, Attachment Includes Love: January 6, 2025
‘I will take your argument in good faith only if you align with me in this misinterpretation of the text’ is an interesting approach to take ngl
anyway, textually, attachment includes love. they are not 1:1, of course, but the jedi certainly forbid 'love’. anakin is being tongue-in-cheek and bending the rules when he defines compassion as 'unconditional love’ in response to padme’s 'wait, isn’t love forbiden’ [look, I’m explicitly referencing the text and not some random 2007 george lucas interview], and here 'love’, in anakin’s statement, is used in the more general sense (e.g. love for human kind) not love in the prohibited sense (e.g. for a person, like a spouse or your mother).
the PT movies - the canonical text - do not define attachment, but it is heavily implied and a part of the movies that, as part of the ban on attachment, they forbid loving interpersonal relationships such as familial and spousal relationships.
so like.
pro jedi fans.
sure, in your ideal fantasy world using strung-together sentences from george lucas, who is notoriously inconsistent in his worldbuilding (luke and leia kiss anyone?), attachment takes on the buddhist meaning.
but stop fooling yourself - and trying to fool everyone else - that the PT jedi order does not ban 'love’, on a personal scale, under the umbrella of attachment, because then the whole movies kind of crumble (then why was anakin asked to forget his mother? I don’t think fearing for your mother’s LIFE is unhealthy attachment, particularly when she’s enslaved, FFS, he did actually leave her, y'know, crucial part of TPM).
pro jedi fans: it’s in the text!
me, scanning the movie scripts: yeah you’re full of shit. where did you get this, AO3?
padme: 'jedi aren’t allowed to marry’. falling in love is forbidden… because attachment… yadda yadda ya… yoda’s literally says 'missing and mourning people is attachment’, that’s a normal sign of grief, that’s not unhealthy at all under normal circumstances
I’m tired, y'all. the movies do not go into detail about jedi philosophy and so, of course, by nature we infer it and have different interpretations, but straight up stating things like 'attachment doesn’t mean this’ when it’s straight up never defined in the movies, but by implication and necessity clearly includes love… smh.
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Appendix
My hashtags: 'the pro jedi nonsense strikes again, hey they posted in the jedi critical tag and I'm here to say, politely, you're wrong! how are you expecting criticism in good faith when you cannot accept the fundamental fact that attachment is not defined in the movies and not everyone is reading 55 legends book and an avid fan of a 2008 tv show! and I'm a death to the author person so these kind of insistent takes are particularly tiresome
Peer Review
@anidala-for-ever's reblog:
The only person we have heard claim that "compassion is defined as unconditional love , so Jedi are encouraged to love" is Anakin and he claims that this is his personal definition of compassion. I find it pretty interesting that people latch on to this, but ignore other or claim he is unreliable narrator when he says that he is not allowed to be with the people he loves ( his mother) or that Obi-Wan is overly critical of him, is jealous and is holding him back (AOTC) , the Jedi and the Republic have lost their way ( ROTS before his fall).
The other Jedi don't say things like that. In TPM the Yoda terrorises Anakin with a spiel about suffering, ignoring that Anakin is 9 and scared for his enslaved mother, while Windu claims they don't accept that old members (this shows their attitude towards familial relationships). In AOTC Obi-Wan tells Anakin that his dreams about his mother will pass (the recurring nightmares of the slave woman in a dangerous planet that Anakin hasn't seen or heard from in 10 years) and that Anakin would be thrown out of the Jedi Order if he prioritized saving Padme's life in Geonosis over catching Dooku. In ROTS Yoda says to Anakin to let go of everything he fears to lose, nothing else no other compassionate advice. So, why is everyone hang up on what Anakin said?
@komikbookgeek's further addition:
Also let us not forget that Shmi is the one who taught Anakin compassion, love, to give to others in need, etc.
He came to Jedi EXPECTING them to be like the good, moral, beautiful person his mother was, only with Force Use.
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@riana-one's reblog:
The. Jedi. Take. Babies. From. Their. Families.
They have the state mandate to test, track, and the store the data of all Force senstives, without parental consent, in order to recruit at their leisure.
Not to protect.
Not to teach.
This isn't Xavier School for Gifted Youngsters.
It is Psi Corps.
The Jedi cut off all communication and connection with the birth families and don't even inform them if their children are dead or not.
Anakin was the strongest Force sensitive on record and the Council's major problem that at the ripe old age of nine years old, he was too attached to his mother - who had been left behind as a slave!
When you can't deal or adapt to any human condition beyond we break up families because we need infant recruits- you failed as coming across as the good guys.
PT Jedi: Apathy = Peak Non-Attachment (I Disagree): May 15, 2025
the jedi in the PT act like apathy is peak non-attachment
to avoid suffering - here the dark side - they avoid feeling at all, they avoid trying at all.
from my understanding, non-attachment in buddhism is about not clinging to things and accepting change.
whereas the jedi order have twisted non-attachment to not even try to save someone’s life and prematurely accept its loss as inevitable (see: padme, shmi)
it’s become apathy and lack of compassion
a more helpful response would have been: try to save her, but accept that you may be unsuccessful. you cannot control life or death, but that doesn’t mean you should not try to save people from death if possible
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Appendix
My hashtags: 'and I think too many people assume that the jedi use attachment the same way is buddhists despite that not being how it's represented in the films. I did look into buddhism non attachment which seems like a reasonable and healthy religious belief. and jedi non attachment is. not that. it's complete avoidance of love and feelings rather than acceptance thereof. drawing largely upon yoda's 'advice' to anakin in ROTS. also just because george lucas appropriated east asian aesthetics and was generally oriental when developing the jedi does not and indeed should not be read as making jedi and buddhism 1:1 orientalist I mean (see: edward said the academic of all time).'
I would also like to clarify that Buddhism, whilst often associated with East Asia, originated in South Asia, in contemporary Nepal (Orientalism is still relevant - People often think East Asian religious aesthetics = Buddhism. I am not an expert on Buddhism, but I think drawing a real religion into discussions about the Jedi to justify their practices is disingenuous and inaccurate).
Peer Review
@riana-one's reblog:
We take infants away from families for the Greater Good, but taking in a slightly older child that knows and misses his mama and wants her saved and safe is going to lead to Suffering.
But we are of the Good and the Light.
Shmi didn't have space cancer and needed hospice help; she was left a slave!!!
This reblog resulted in a lengthy discussion about whether the Jedi should or should not have accepted Anakin into the Jedi: you can read this interesting discussion here.
‘a jedi shall not know anger, nor hatred, nor love’ is literally the tagline for AOTC but the jedi didn’t ban love, ig, despite that being the whole premise of AOTC
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Peer Review
@riana-one's reblog:
And the entire plot of TPM was at the ripe old age of /nine/ Anakin was too 'attached' to his missing mother, who was left behind as a slave on a hell planet.
The oh so compassionate Jedi were more concerned about browbeating a child over his ignorance over points of their doctrine than saving a woman who gave so much aid to one of their knights.
@the-far-bright-center's hashtags: #yeah the ‘love’ part includes familial love too
@kittytudor's hashtags: #‘b-b-but they only forbid unhealthy love in the form of attachement!1!1’ like shut upppp!!! #and then ppl bring up books written like last year as some kind of proof of this #dude you might as well be using actual fanfiction as proof atp #like im willing to believe this was what it ORIGINALLY meant thousands of years ago but clearly it got corrupted over time #into applying to all kinds of love in practice #which is not unlike what happened to the republic at large (its ideals corrupted and twisted over time)
@aspiringwarriorlibrarian's hashtags: #yeah I’ve seen a couple of particularly dumb takes on this about how Jedi are totally allowed to marry and….no
No Attachment Policy is not great: August 20, 2025
people will literally turn to any source but the actual films to prop up their ‘the jedi no attachment rule was good and healthy actually’ and refuse to engage with a core premise of the phantom menace that yoda, the head of the jedi, tells a child missing his mum that is inherently wrong, actually
@the-far-bright-center's reblog:
I stand by my thesis that people would maybe, just maybe, be able to understand the PT’s characters and themes if they simply took a moment to remember the existence of TPM. 🙃
@eldritchdemigodskywalkers' reblog:
#TPM is actually the most important film in the saga #but no one wants to hear that! (via @the-far-bright-center)
If you don't mind, allow me to elaborate on this point. But first, to prevent any misunderstandings, we establish that the saga = the core six movies (PT + OT only, everything else is supplementary material) = Anakin's story. When the saga is viewed in chronological order, TPM establishes:
- Anakin's backstory of being a traumatized child failed by the system, but wanting to help others: informs his later psychological mindset and political views; scenes establish his true self of caring about his family and friends and even random strangers (i.e. being a good bean) + his skills and potential
- Anakin and Padmé's first meeting and relationship: they were friends first; they see each other as people underneath their dehumanizing masks, social positions, etc.; as with the most fundamental aspects of Anakin's life, it all began on Tatooine, before he ever stepped foot in the Core and its corruption
- Shmi: establishes Anakin's true self (being the one who taught him to be a good bean in the first place); the separation was traumatic + foreshadows his fear of loss and the erosion of his support network that would ultimate lead to his Fall
- The Republic: corrupt and uncaring, complicit in (if not outright) perpetuating cruelty and injustice
- The Jedi Order's policies: believe in feelcrime, unable to accommodate said traumatized child for being "too old", ineffectual; Qui-Gon vs. Obi-Wan's stances posit different mentorship pathways (flexibility vs. tradition, whether it's okay to make a child cry*); Anakin's initial idealization of the Order vs. them in reality further reinforces the corruption/stagnation/etc. of the Republic and his TPM-state as a (relatively) innocent child, despite the atrocities he has witnessed and already been subjected to
- Palpatine: "We will watch your career with great interest" foreshadows his influence and impending grooming + other scenes establish his political maneuvering that would get him into power in the first place
[*: This is an oversimplification but re: compassion in the section below]
With a single movie alone, it foreshadows a lot of the Prequels' and even OT's themes:
- The corruption of unjust and uncaring institutions
- The importance of love and compassion and support networks as resistance against the aforementioned corruption (re: "Love can ignite the stars", ROTS novelization)
- Anakin's nature vs. nurture debate (an elaboration of the OT, which already tells us how it ends: nurture overtakes, but nature ultimately prevails)
- Personhood vs. dehumanization
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Further Peer Review
Specifically reblogging from eldritchdemigodskywalker's amazing breakdown:
@nesry-n's hashtag: #an apt and amazing take!
@sykversa's reblog: always the best takes fr fr
Other
@riana-one's reblog:
And worse, the apologists will go so far as blame the literal child in the situation!
Anakin is too damaged, too dangerous, too Dark to become a Jedi.
Anakin lied about his feelings, Anakin wasn't honest, Anakin rejected the all compassionate therapy from the therapy, and Yoda was right because Anakin became Darth Vader!
Banthashit. There is no legitimate therapy model, especially one for children, that forces the client to face a group of unsmiling strangers who have the power of life and death over them and expect them to bare their innermost soul.
Anakin has zero context for the Jedi dogma that Yoda regurgitates beyond the space wizards don't want him and think he is a bad seed that will cause suffering and missing his mom is somehow wrong.
And yeah, emotionally abusing a child for a decade by telling them they are bad, wrong, and at fault for their natural instincts can have them internalize it with horrible consequences.
Almost as if it was a self fulling prophecy.
@sammys-magical-au's reblog: Fr they’ll see how scared and traumatized kids - not just Anakin! - in the Jedi Order were and still be like “but it’d be way worse if they were allowed to have friends and see their parents and form strong bonds with their masters”. They say this shit just because they wanna prop Anakin up as the villain from the beginning instead of just accepting that he wasn’t always evil, he started off as a severely traumatized little boy who just wanted his mom
@anidala-for-ever's reblog: Not just any child, but a traumatized child slave turned unaccompanied child refugee whose mother has been left behind as a slave in a planet ran by the mob. It's clear by their goodbye scene that neither Anakin nor Shmi believe the Jedi will free her (they are correct). This means Anakin at the council chamber scene has had only a few days at the age of nine to come to terms with never seeing his only parent and family member again. The council treated him in an awful way.
@foolhardyfrolic's tags on the above reblog: #all of this #the way the jedi order recruited at rhis time was always messed up #and the jedi didn't always do it this way #nor did Luke do it in Legends
it’s always quite interesting when jedi fans try to soften the rules
‘you’re imagining things, jedi only banned ATTACHMENTS (definition drawn from avatar the last air bender and buddhism, not the actual movies), UNHEALTHY POSSESSIVE THINGS, like ew anakin’s for padmé’s, wanting your wife to not die in childbirth is ick’
no actually the jedi did ban and look down on perfectly normal loving relationships between people, most explicitly anakin and shmi
the jedi helped anakin’s love for padmé twist by making him desperate and vulnerable enough to take a devil’s bargain by forcing him to suppress it
controversial opinion: the prequel trilogy jedi are far from an ideal lifestyle model, and trying to insist they’re exactly like buddhists because george lucas co-opted their aesthetic is actually quite orientalist
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Peer Review
@the-far-bright-center's reply: Also, why do people ignore the fact that the Knights Templar were ALSO an influence on the Jedi as portrayed in the PT? I mean they were a clear influence on how the story spoke about them (‘damn fool crusade’) even since ANH. The existence of the Jedi Code and the ‘no love’ thing reflects the strictness of the Templar Rule (Templars were not allowed to marry and not even allowed to interact w/ female family members). The Templars also had a Grandmaster in charge of the Order , and they likewise started out as protectors of pilgrims on journeys through dangerous areas of the Outremer, but then eventually became a hugely powerful (and yes corrupt) institution in their own right. They even had their own ‘Order 66’, instigated by King Philip IV of France. I don’t expect everyone to know all details about the historical aspects that are reflected in the PT era Jedi, but it is sooooo endlessly frustrating when people fall back on the ‘but they are Buddhists’ as a way to *defend* them and their rules, when that’s hardly the sole influence on their creation.
@stitchzin's reply: Love was a strong emotion, one that they had no way of controlling, they probably limited it little by little until it reached the extreme. Besides, they made it seem like being a Jedi is the only way to do something good in the galaxy, it's a beautiful and light-filled oppression. The Jedi They stayed in the absolute light for so long that they didn't notice her shadow, looking at the sun for too long makes you blind
My response: yeah! I think it was a slow creeping corruption and slow creep towards being more extreme. they say they must not be attached, and yet they become attached to their reputations and a crumbling republic, which imo is more dangerous than someone being married.
@stitchzin's further reply: Attached to their children (padawans). The point is not love anything outside the order, and any good emotions can lead to love if nourished. But depression? You gotta trust the force and figure it out. Fear? The problem is you imbalance in the force. At the end Jedi were great at dissociation. (I just realised that)
@skywalkr-nberrie's hashtags: #the mental gymnastics that’s perfumed when it comes to defending the j3di #crazy #even if we entertain their love isn’t forbidden it’s attachment argument for a second #the jedi still banned all forms of romantic relationships because of the probability that you’ll end up attached to your partner #they didn’t even wanna entertain the idea of loving someone so much that you’d want to enter a committed relationship with them #because the jedi expects your first commitment to be the order #now matter what name you give it #their probable is in fact with loving and passionate relationships
@wierdgaypanda-blog's hashtags: #i like the jedi as individuals okay #but they are 100% a flawed institution #forcing a child slave into a religious institution as his only means of freedom and then implying he is evil for being afraid #not a good look there yoda/qui-gon
@renecatstuff's reblog: Couldn't have said it better myself.
@liminal-disaster's hashtag: #you have good takes [aw thanks!]
Execution, not intention: September 6, 2025
again, I am a death of the author person, so I don’t care about GL intentions, I care about his execution
and his execution was that the order flat out banned marriage because they saw it as an attachment! sorry! they did not make a distinction between love and unhealthy possession. maybe it started out that way, but certainly is not.
also anakin being cheeky and redefining the code isn’t an accurate reflection of what it actually meant, btw.
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Peer Review
@epicpleasure's reblog:
If the prequel Jedi Order really did clearly distinguish between ‘love’ and ‘unhealthy attachment’, then why was Anakin prohibited from making the most basic form of contact with his mother to know that she’s okay? He just loves his mother, so surely he could at least know she’s safe, then the ‘well-adjusted Jedi’ could walk him through processing any ‘unhealthy attachment’ that they ‘so clearly can distinguish’
But no, that’s not what happens in the canonical films.
Despite any theory people might have about the Jedi being a supportive ‘found family’, they absolutely banned all forms of interpersonal love IN PRACTICE.
… not to mention the whole love featurette attached to AOTC with all the actors and GL repeatedly say that A-P can’t be together at all…
…not to mention TCW Obi Wan blatantly telling Anakin that he and Padmé can’t be together period (not that they can’t be ‘unhealthily attached to one another’)…
The Jedi forbid romance, full stop: September 10, 2025
people acting like the jedi order would have been okay with THEIR specialist little romantic relationship because THEY didn’t do attachment wrong, unlike anakin skywalker who is an outlier adn should not have been counted, always makes me laugh
your logic is fundamentally flawed
you cannot have a jedi romance without grappling with the fact that they are inherently forbidden in the PT era. sorry! but you’re going against the films! better luck next time.
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Peer Review
@riana-one's reblog:
Because they are hypocrites who think their OC is the specialist special and can deep romantic and emotional connections but not be badly 'attached' which is an oxymoron if there was ever one.
I can love and value my padawan like my own child but not actually because if the Order orders me to leave them to die or throws them out or they suffer and fail or get lost in the war, the answer is to shrug and move on- not worry or mourn or regret.
Anakin's big Fall from grace was *look at notes* not wanting his beloved mother and pregnant wife to die horrible, preventable, senseless deaths.
Or just do the canon approach of wham, bam, thank you ma'am of casual sex.
@the-far-bright-center's hashtags: #truly this type of claim is so freaking dumb #they forget that 'attachments' and 'love'ALSO includes FAMILY #not solely romantic relationships #how is Anakin 'doing' his love for his mother 'wrong'??? #he is a purehearted child when he separates from her #but yes.... it also means random Jedi aren't gonna be in romantic relationships with each other #the gall of people to think their Jedi could 'do' romance 'right' but Anakin can't #fuck me i hate this shit #sw fandom can be the worst
@kittytudor's hashtags: #no guys you dont get it some disney book written in 2023 said its okay actually!!! #the content of the actual movies that have existed for 20 years no longer matters!!
@darkcrowprincess's hashtags: #People constantly forgetting Jedi are suppose to be like celibate monks with swords #The whole point is love is forbidden #Any kind of love
@err0r404not's hashtags: #!!!!!!!!!!! #but but attachment isn't love.... #which I think is a nitpicky statement #what types of emotions and relationships can attachments occur with?? #it's a trick question.... it's all of them... #and if love wasn't a part of the jedi interpretation of attachment then why was his forbidden to see his mom.... #it doesn't matter what the buddhist attachment theory states.... that's not what's expressed in the movies... #the movies are the text not buddhism
ah yes an inherently possessive and unhealthy love *checks notes* a nine year old missing his mum
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Peer Review
@eldritchdemigodskywalkers' reblog: this is one of the reasons i'm currently beefing with tv tropes: "near-total inability to accept being permanently separated from his mother" oh, you mean acting like a reasonably normal 9-year-old, particularly so in the context of knowing her life is at risk at any moment in her present circumstances. why are you trying to separate a 9-year-old from his loving mother permanently anyway? filed under early personality signs? that's called psychological trauma, might do to clarify that.
My response: have they considered: empathising with the child. not further traumatising the child. thinking that fear is natural and what's unnatural is repression, and the jedi teaching anakin to repress and ignore his fear was a significant contributing factor to his fall
@riana-one's reblog:
Because the Jedi are about emotional repression, not regulation.
It is 'conceal, don't feel'.
But emotions /are/, and only the actions matter.
Anger, fear, and hatred are natural and normal and actually a part of keeping the species alive.
The Jedi make no difference in situational circumstances. The slave angry and afraid of a bunch of new masters that control his future is condemned; the senator more concerned about reelection than helping suffering on the Outer Rim gets warm regard.
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@riana-one's reblog: And we must separate babies from their families as soon as possible and rarely allow contact *checks notes* because the love between parent and child is possessive and leads to suffering and Darkness.
My response: because without training from infancy they uh *throws OT out of the window* they can never learn and they are a danger to themselves and others
@riana-one's response: But the Jedi Order will *check notes* teach small children how to master a completely deadly weapon, drop them into the middle of a war at the start of adolescence, and even abandoned them without thought or care if they die or go missing.
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Other reblogs
@allronix:
Yup. When the Jedi come right out of the gate with that...well, okay. WHY?!
To prevent attachment, they say. "Attachment" is, if you use the Buddhist sense of the word, unhealthy dependency, obsession, and so forth.
So...you're saying that a child's love for their caregiver is inherently "unhealthy dependency, obsession, and so forth." gotcha. That..sounds really bad. In fact, logic like that is often associated with groups that are more interested in power and control, fashioning completely loyal/fanatical foot soldiers...
Y'know, like the Sith, the kind of assholes who blow up planets and kick puppies for funsies. So...okay...there's that...
Oh no! We're totes different. We ask PERMISSION - we're not animals.
And, that's not my actual question here. Of course, you do this with paperwork in triplicate. This is the fucking Republic where everything is paperwork. The question is WHY THAT YOUNG?
So they don't develop attachment!
And you're saying that a child's love for their caregiver - the first and most fundamental connection sentient beings experience - is inherently "attachment." (unhealthy dependency, obsession, and so forth) - THAT'S what I have questions about!
@empress-violetlight:
Compare the New Jedi Order in the original EU:
To several grown adults: "Hey, you have some Force sensitivity? Want to become a Jedi? Yes! Awesome! Welcome aboard! No? That's okay, we're here if you change your mind. Marriage? Kids? Sure! Why wouldn't we? This stuffs genetic, after all."
@the-far-bright-center: #jedi discourse #yes #please tell it like it is to these idiots
@anidala-for-ever: #Yes they were better than the Sith #No they didn't deserve their genocide #Yes the children were wholly innocent #That still doesn't mean the Jedi are exempt from criticism #Or that they didn't have faults
@blackjack-15: #yupppp #and you cannot cannot CANNOT square that circle. ever. #i don't need to make up jedi critical stuff b/c the prequels /prove/ that they are not the good guys. over and over and over
@anakinskywalkerisfave: #THIS
@demona9999: #I just dont understand how some people defend the Jedi order for this shitXD
trivalising or minimising the extent to which anidala’s marriage is forbidden by the jedi order, not because anakin’s love for padmé is ‘possessive attachment’ (… stop), but because the jedi ban marriage and other similar intimate personal relationships full stop (most famously by shaming a kid for missing his mum), is really annoying & in my view, an egregious misreading of the story that trivalises anakin’s conflict in ROTS
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Appendix
My hashtag: 'there are very fucking good reasons why anakin didn't trust the jedi or obi wan in ROTS actually'.
Peer Review
@vani11a-ice's reblog:
THIS. I’m seeing this argument everywhere and, listen, I’m okay with the idea of distinguishing between attachment and love and how Anakin obviously shouldn’t have helped Palpatine destroy the Jedi Order just for the chance to save his pregnant wife (which is what ended up ensuring her death anyway)
But when people straight up try and claim that the Jedi Order leadership would’ve been chill with Anakin’s marriage/romantic relationship, that’s just crazy
Maybe you could argue that in the distant past they were less strict, because the code never explicitly forbids it and maybe now with the paranoia things changed and the council altered their stance (I’ve seen some people have that interpretation online, and it’s got support from a few sources so fair enough)
But either way, Anakin has to have a reason at that very moment in history to be keeping this a secret. If bro could’ve just gone and talked to the council about it, that makes a big ordeal/conflict of two movies and multiple series/extended media feel so stupid and pointless💀I guess Anakin is really dumb and went with the harder option rather than the easier, safer and more obvious option of telling the truth—because that’s what it feels like these ideas are trying to say as a way to discredit his conflict and that is so idiotic
#It is absolutely possible to be accurate/considerate of Jedi tenets #Whilst not unfairly blaming/mischaracterising Anakin #Balance is possible people
@nesry-n's hashtag: #yes!!! 👏👏
@emeraldvssociety's hashtags: #THIS #idk how such an extreme shift about love vs. attachment came about #the jedi said: marriage and love are banned not allowed #and somehow it’s kind of drifted into …yeah love is fine actually it’s just bad when Anakin does it #Avar and Elzar lowkey should have rifted into a lesson for how Yoda was acting so this would have made much more sense #Jedi discourse ig #it’s just very hard writing fanfic about a religion that orginally said no love and now is saying love is okay as long as you’re not #Anakin like what #why did they treat him like that #and by slightly Obi-Wan by extension because s2 of the clone wars still had him following the rules #Wtvr #Avar gets a pass because I too would let the golden girl get whatever she wants
@foolhardyfrolic's hashtags: #this #omg #it annoys me so much #formal relationships are indeed banned by the Clone Wars era Jedi Order #that is part of the conflict of the story #everything else is fanon twisting of the narrative #which is fine for your own fanfiction #but acknowledge that is not canon
@actuallynunk's hashtags: #THIS. thank you #i love sw fic writers most of the time but if i see one more fic essentially stating that anakin should've just shared everything #and there would've been no problem... or worse treating him like an idiot for not being open about his secret marriage #i'm going to throw hands #anyway. i love these two and their secrets
Anidala is not the exception: January 9, 2026
anidala isn’t okay because it breaks the jedi code but this OTHER jedi romantic relationship (which by default breaks the rules as explicitly established in the movies, particularly AOTC) is OKAY because they practice attachment in a healthy way and anakin does not is. such a frustrating paradoxical statement.