Comment on A Cabal of Paris

  1. Deiseach (Guest) on Chapter 1 Sat 29 Dec 2018 05:37PM UTC

    Athos' many talents and perfections

    WHICH ARE ALL TRUE AND REAL, ME AND ALEX WILL FIGHT YOU, WE'LL FIGHT ANYONE, WE'LL FIGHT OURSELVES ABOUT ATHOS' ABSOLUTE GOD-LIKE SUBLIMITY.

    No, I trust you to do full justice to the fainting maiden :-)

    It's weird; objectively, I know novel Athos is a steaming mess and even more complicated in the back of his twisty little mind than Aramis and he is just not someone to admire or copy or anything, really. BUT I DON'T CARE, I LOVE HIM, EVEN IF HE TOOK AWAY PORTHOS' PINEAPPLE FROM HIM I WOULD FORGIVE HIM, THAT'S HOW MUCH I LOVE HIM! I dunno, there's just something about his "fuck the world, I'm gonna get drunk" attitude that resonates with me (also his "I found out you did something once that had nothing to do with me which you didn't tell me about and it's something I disapprove of so I immediately cast you out of my life, how dare you trick me into liking and trusting you, and forgiveness is not an option, don't even dream of it buster" resonates too because we're both prickly, secretive and judgemental. His turning his life around when he had Raoul as A Single Mother is admirable but not something I can emulate, so I admire him intensely for his "welp, got a kid now, better grow the fuck up and get responsible" change of heart).

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    1. Donna_Immaculata on Chapter 1 Sat 29 Dec 2018 05:53PM UTC

      Worry not, the entire story has been written specifically to point out the many ways in which Athos is Best! Alex would be proud.

      Novel Athos rides, fences and drinks to perfection, knows the secrets of seafaring and speaks English like a native, and his manners at Court (when he graces it with his presence) are as immaculate as Aramis' hair. So he might have a leetle drinking and vengefulness problem, but that's nothing compared with his otherwise superhuman qualities, which in no way imply that he might be a son of any god whatsoever, hahaha not him, he's as mortal as they come. (Look, it's really hard to let go of the demigod thing, now that we've unearthed it and proved it beyond reasonable doubt.)

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      1. Deiseach (Guest) on Chapter 1 Sat 29 Dec 2018 06:01PM UTC

        Look, it's really hard to let go of the demigod thing, now that we've unearthed it and proved it beyond reasonable doubt.

        As you say, this is the AU where "what if they were only mortals, ha ha yeah that's outrageous but go with me on it" fiction is written. No Teef, no Suddenly, no chyortik or thunderhands!

        Vengefulness is not a problem. For us who are vengeful. For those we are vengeful against, yeah, the whole point of it is that it's a problem - your problem.

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        1. Donna_Immaculata on Chapter 1 Sat 29 Dec 2018 06:03PM UTC

          Also, they might still be their true selves, only choosing not to use Teef on this one, for a change. That's the real Cunning Disguise.

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    3. ysande on Chapter 1 Sun 30 Dec 2018 12:47AM UTC

      I just wanted to chime in here to offer a fist bump in the matter of Loving Athos With Complete Disregard Of Reality, because I do and it's necessary and unavoidable! I've been in love with Athos for over twenty years; and over that time I've come to realise that he's pretty much the definition of Problematic Fav, but it doesn't matter, because he's perfect and talented and cool under pressure (except for occasional murderous impulses) and unflappable (except for that time he was locked in a cellar and just drank solidly for a week and covered himself in oil instead of trying to escape???) and Noble and handsome and perfectly formed and I love him. This despite me realising that in my own game of Marry, Fuck, Kill, Athos would very regrettably have to be my Kill. (Like, what would I do with a very perfect man who suffers from bouts of melancholia and attempted uxoricide (note: I literally just learnt this word), and doesn't like women at all? Aramis would be MUCH better in the bedroom, and Porthos (BBC Musketeers Porthos, that is) would be a MUCH better husband.

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      1. Deiseach (Guest) on Chapter 1 Sun 30 Dec 2018 12:56AM UTC

        Absolutely Porthos is marriage material; out of them all, Novel Porthos married his mistress at the end (when she finally became a wealthy widow) so he stuck to her instead of throwing her over, and he seems to have settled down to live in domesticity with her and gained his baronetcy and his biggest problem was being slightly bored with a happy conventional life, which is why he let both d'Artagnan and then Aramis talk him into One More Last Adventure For Old Times' Sake.

        Aramis is hard to get a read on; probably he did genuinely have feelings for Marie, but he does age into being the 'have conventional discreet affairs which don't mean much and are as much about political and social advantage as anything'. He does provide for his ex-lover and their (presumably but not necessarily his) offspring but also pretty much arranges that they'll never come into contact again, which is a little cold-blooded.

        Athos is STAY AWAY DO NOT APPROACH DON'T EVEN DREAM OF THIS and of the two romances we hear about (and there's no sign there were any flirtations or indiscretions in between them) the first one ended with MURDERATION and the second one was "I was drunk, she was disguised as a man, she put the moves on me and by the time I realised she wasn't a man - well, that's where babies come from, Raoul" which is a hilarious story particularly when he gets pregnant the one and only time they have sex (and the way it's written, Athos is in the conventional position of the seduced and abandoned pregnant woman) but isn't really a foundation for marriage, happy or otherwise.

        Then again, I'm not inclined to marriage or romance myself, so I find myself in agreement with Athos. He's terrible - he gambles, he beats his servant, he's a complete misanthrope, but I love him desperately anyway!

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        1. ysande on Chapter 1 Sun 30 Dec 2018 01:11AM UTC

          I just love how utterly incompetent Athos is at relationships; there's the "oops now I have to murder you" relationship; the "fuck, I thought you were a man" relationship; and the other, his first and my actual fav, "holy shit I'm in love with a statue" relationship, which Donna_Immaculata and I came to the joint and several obvious conclusion that the statue (the gender of which was never specified in the books) was a of a very pretty man.

          And undoubtedly there's no excusing Athos' behaviour at all, except that the books offer so many plausible excuses and because I'm besotted, I happily swallow them all: he does gamble, but he does it with such calm coolness and never cares whether he wins or loses! And he does beat his servant and forbids him from ever speaking (what the fuck, Athos!!) but Grimaud is the most loving and devoted servant and does not actually seem to have stockholm syndrome and probably is free to leave but then is still around as his loyal Alfred Pennyworth in 20YA to pose as a jailor for months, so there must have been SOMETHING between Athos and Grimaud and I have spent a lot of time over my life dreaming up scenarios of what that something is. (I never watched series 3 of the BBC show, because series 2 was such a fucking disaster; but one of the additional reasons I never watched series 3 was because apparently they turned Grimaud into a scary villain, which just!!! What!! The!! Fuck!!!)

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          1. Deiseach (Guest) on Chapter 1 Sun 30 Dec 2018 01:17AM UTC

            Oh I forgot the statue, how could I forget the statue? "Dude, don't you think it's a bit weird your fifteen year old kid is talking about marrying a seven year old child?" "Oh ho ho ho, teenagers are like that, why at his age I was in love with a statue! He'll grow out of it and be completely normal, just like me!"

            Thing is, I could absolutely see why he'd fall in love with a statue at that delicate age of development. Him and me, both useless at real relationships, we're made for one another! Well, made for drinking together while being supercilious about the world and the rest of the people around us! :-)

            (Season three of the show was a disaster. You did well to avoid it. One or two good scenes but my God, they tried to cram so much in it split like a sausage, and they treated Milady dreadfully, and yes they took Grimaud's name and made him completely unrelated to Athos but still his Nemesis, and it would take too long to list everything wrong with it).

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            1. ysande on Chapter 1 Sun 30 Dec 2018 01:36AM UTC

              I just - I love that Athos is so fucking competent at people things when he wants to be (amazing at Court! perfect manners! best conversationalist!) but then when you look at his personal life it's like he's a poorly programmed robot that only has the most approximate idea of what human relationships are actually like. And you could imagine that being loved by Athos would be the most intense and uncomfortable love ever; I'm not actually surprised that Raoul turned out a bit weird with his obsession of the girl, because he only had Athos to learn from...

              But I think Athos IS a champion of Moody Drinking and Supercilious Judgment and being Too Cool To Care whenever he can tamp down on the wild and obsessive loves that cross his life, and I think these things are actually a huge part of why we are hopelessly in love with his problematic but excellent self, so I think sharing these qualities with Athos would make you an excellent companion ;)

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              1. Deiseach (Guest) on Chapter 1 Sun 30 Dec 2018 01:45AM UTC

                I can see some of my bad qualities in Athos - for instance, the judgmental, black-and-white thinking, the immediate emotional reaction that he tries to justify as acting out of reason and duty, when it came to Milady. Or how he deals with things by throwing everything up, heading off to Paris, and drinking to numb his emotions. Or how he is bad at relationships. Or the repressing emotions behind a facade of cool, rational, unphased calm.

                I also see things in him I admire, which are maybe out of tune with the current of today, or are just more examples of him going too far. Like him, I'd tend to Honour Above All (the TV Trope about how Good can be Stupid when it comes to things like this in Paladins) and putting a huge emphasis on Duty and Correct Behaviour.

                I can see why he'd be competent at Courtly duties like having perfect manners and conducting conversations along the lines of how the rules say you should have witty and elegant discourse while knowing how to correctly address those around you (equals, superiors, inferiors) and generally playing the game, because there are rules you can follow and you can train for it. Having a spontaneous open conversation would be an entirely different thing! When he gets jarred out of his rut, he finds it very difficult to handle things. Aramis is much more adaptable, and Porthos just rolls with it.

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              2. (15 more comments in this thread)

            3. Donna_Immaculata on Chapter 1 Sun 30 Dec 2018 03:37PM UTC

              Oh, how could you forget the statue! Especially since we know whose statue it was. A lot of rage happened over that statue (and the original), you know :D

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          3. Donna_Immaculata on Chapter 1 Sun 30 Dec 2018 02:55PM UTC

            In fact, El and I have now identified the statue to be Antinuous. A very popular statue, as statues go, and Athos would have ample opportunity to admire him and his nipples the noble lines of his body from many angles.

            apparently they turned Grimaud into a scary villain, which just!!! What!! The!! Fuck!!!

            Oh gods, of all the crimes they committed this is probably the worst.

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