Yes, exactly! It’s like, yes, it’s shocking and weird and wild but like, you get invested! You love these characters and want to see them get out ok even as it just increasingly becomes obvious that things will NOT turn out well. It’s just, it’s such a cool story that they can get you invested in something that takes you on such a wild ride, y’know? I think that’s a mark of good storytelling, that even when things are getting Weird, you still get sucked in and invested anyway.
Yes, yes it is CX
Hahaha, mood. I love how you described this. Nobody is happy. Morgana is upset he is being treated like a cat, and Katsuya is upset that he got his hopes up that there was going to be a cat he could pet. Honestly, it’s better this way, I think if Morgana wasn’t allergy unfriendly, Katsuya would just kidnap him and keep him as a permanent pet. I mean, he wouldn’t, because I’m sure he’d consider it kidnapping also if the cat can talk, it seems like how he’d feel. But he would be extremely tempted to. He’d probably have been like “hey would you like to live at my house forever of your own free will where I feed you anything you want and in return you let me scratch underneath your chin” lol.
Yeah, I can see how that could easily be a sort of hard thing to make it interesting. But at the same time, I just can’t help but feel like there’s potential in having the Tatsuya’s that’s Akira’s dad being back on This Side again in Maruki’s reality, you know? Every time you try and describe it I’m like “yes, yes, yes!” because the idea just inherently sounds interesting to me. And also yes that last bit you just wrote there is hilarious just OH SO NOW YOU WANNA FORGET??? And the sad part is of course he does, everything that happened sucked and was super traumatic so of course Maruki’s reality dumps it in the Memory Hole. But still, very funny.
Exactly. Let’s be realistic. Plus I feel like most of the people who are into the Early Persona games are the kind of people who would buy/want the PC port, y’know? It’s in that same niche of nerdiness that PC gamers fall into. Twenty year old games with small fanbases.
That’s the problem with getting older, you’re always like, you look back at people who you thought were adults or at least grown up and go OH NO BABIES because you now know what it felt like at that age and realize oh god, no, no they’re not grownups.
And yeah, I think I agree that Persona works best with teenagers, I definitely think that the self discovery of your teen years is a good niche for Persona stories to get involved in, but I’m also glad there’s at least one game where there’s adults as the stars at the same time. I think it’s better that way, weirdly? Just is more rounded out. It also heartens me that generally Persona games have important adult characters that aren’t idiots, I just like that.
Ha, well, we’ll see.
I really enjoyed making it, it just sort of happened while planning it. Fun fact! Her mask takes some inspiration from the Pokémon also based on plague doctors, Aromatisse (it’s based on how plague doctors stuffed those beaks full of nice smelling flowers btw if you look it up and wonder why it looks like that) and it just very fun to me as a design. Still not sold on the dress’s colors but can’t figure out what else to do, if I want her to be all black in the dress or not.
I liked giving her a more manic feral look than canon Haru’s expression for Persona Q2, it makes her look delightfully unhinged, and it kind of informed my ideas for how she’d be as the Black Mask, which I’m wondering if they wouldn’t refer to her as the Black Plague because of the outfit. Also, I just think the idea of the Black Mask being in their school or if they don’t know she’s in their school they know she knows what school they go to, could be used for genuine intrigue and fear among the Phantom Thieves? Somehow giving them the knowledge that the Black Mask/Black Plague is so close to them could be used for outright terror.
Well, it bothers me when I have typos in my messages I notice after a reply is sent and it’s like… right there… I could fix it… but I can’t! Because it’s permanent! It drives me nuts! It’s not anyone else’s typos that really ever bother me, lol, just my own. I feel needlessly infuriated by them.
I think it helps that the characters are so.... Idk if relatable is the right word, like they definitely have their own problems going on that are very unique to them, but they just feel like people doing their own thing and then oh no they got caught in something bigger than them and they're just doing their best, you know?
Honestly I think Katsuya could have won Morgana over with promises of tuna every day. That, and if he went to bed early, he'd just be like Morgana's dream environment.
It's super traumatic and also there's no way he's not still carrying the guilt around with him even though it's been almost twenty years. Like honestly, imagine making one spur of the moment decision while you're probably tired and confused and your friend was just murdered in front of you???? And you aren't really a people person but you just spent all this time fighting with your best friends and you've already forgotten about them once, and now you have to do it again, you have to go back to your normal life and how are you supposed to do that when these people matter so much, and you're so tired and so hurt and you just can't. And you decide you just want your friends with you, and as a consequence you end up in a dead world where you never get to see anyone you care about ever again. Because of one tiny moment that just defines the rest of your life.
But also I think the good thing is that functionally we're probably going to get both ends of this, because either it's going to be okay for Tatsuya to remember but they don't realize it right away, so they start of trying to keep him from remembering before learning it's fine. Or else they realize oh no he can never know, but in private they're like UGH TATSUYA.
I do think I really like the idea of Akira being neck deep in trying to stop Maruki obviously, and so are probably most of the p2 characters that remember, and they just have to keep lying to and sneaking around Tatsuya because oh no, the fabric of reality!
I do think it helps that in the game about adults you also eventually have both a p1 character (whichever one you choose) who you would have seen in an earlier game as a teenager and is now an adult, and also Tatsuya who is right on that cusp of growing up and kind of goes through it over the course of the game. So you still have kind of that process of having been a teenager in transition and seeing where they end up. I think those two things add enough spice to justify the adult cast, thematically.
I like the way it calls back to her canon outfit in the colors while also having these darker accents. It looks almost more functional and less whimsical, while still having the connection to who we know she is in canon.
She does look delightfully unhinged! She also looks like she's having a great time, which honestly is a little concerning for a hitman. But concerning in a good way lol. I wonder how different it would be for them to know the hitman's close. If nothing else, I think the equivalent of the conversation that happens with Akechi at the school festival could hit much harder, because instead of being something they planned for, she could literally drop by at any time. And then after that they just know she's still there.
Ah well I'm sorry! I don't usually even look back at what I've written so I can't relate, but I'm sorry if bothers you!
Yeah! There’s something relatable about just being people caught up in something way bigger than yourself and just trying to get by. It’s almost something that’s missing from the new Persona casts, where, they’re all getting into this of their own free will to save others, and that’s great, but there’s something relatable about just being caught up in stuff out of your own control. Like, yes the IS cast still try to save the world, but they didn’t really go “I’m choosing to save the world” it’s more like saving the world is necessary to them ever getting out of this.
Yes, exactly. Both of them are disappointed now that Katsuya is still allergic, lol.
Yes! Of course he wants to forget all this! It’s just this one decision that defined everything that ever happened to him afterward and it’s this one selfish choice he made that’s not even really selfish so much as just being a normal teenager who wants to be with his friends, and it ends with him trapped in this dead world that he will naturally see as the consequences of his own actions, like a punishment for all his failures.
UGH TATSUYA
It’s always funny to sneak around and lie. Not in real life, of course, but in fiction it can be just hilarious.
Yes! You’ve understood the core underlying themes of Persona 2! The guidance counselor at the start of Innocent Sin actually sort of hints at this theme, asking Tatsuya what he plans to do when he’s out of school, but the game absolutely is about growing up and the transition to adulthood and the loss of childhood innocence and freedoms in exchange for the freedoms of adulthood and the curse of knowledge and even more of a curse, responsibilities. It’s hard to notice under all the weirdness sometimes, but it’s absolutely there.
Well, thanks for the reassurances! It’s growing on me, the colors. It’s probably also helpful that I love most of the colors so it was only one thing where I was like “could I have done better?”
I think her defense mechanism really is that she’s treating it all as a fun game and a cutesy hobby. She’d absolutely text someone something like “tfw the light leaves their eyes UwU” as if that’s just a cute little bonus to her little hobby. She’s basically a complete maniac when she’s in her disguise and I really like that idea because I think it really could work well with Haru, letting her get a little unhinged. She can have a little murder, as a treat, uwu. And yeah, you get it! The omnipresent knowledge of having a serial killer in your school and working with them knowing they can drop in at any time is way more scary than knowing a serial killer and having to work with him knowing he can really only interact with you in the Metaverse.
Wow, I can’t relate to that either, XD. I just can’t help but reread stuff and when I do I notice my own mistakes and it’s like… it’s right there!!! I’m glad you’re more functional about comments, though!
It's kind of a nice mix, I think. In IS they're all kind of oh no we were not expecting this! Apart from possibly Yukino, who only arguably counts, I guess? But by EP, you have most of the group still going WAIT WHAT and then the very interesting contrast of Tatsuya, who is kind of jumping in of his own free will and looking absolutely insane to everyone else. It's such an interesting outside perspective!
lmao I think they still end up friends. Katsuya just keeps trying xD Or maybe Morgana doesn't trigger Katsuya's allergies when they're in the metaverse, at least? I don't know how he feels about monster cats though :p
lmao I mean it's so obvious, but idk there's just so many layers to him being miserable that I think I kind of went a little too long xD A part of me really hates that it's called Innocent Sin, because he didn't sin! He did a super normal thing that was honestly probably really good for him emotionally! And his whole literal life has been defined by this choice and just you're totally right UGH TATSUYA indeed.
lmao Tatsuya catches Akira coming home late/carrying weapons/injured and he's like wtf have you been up to? And Akira's just like I literally can't tell you *whispers* or reality will collapse. Then he eventually catches on to the fact that Katsuya is helping Akira do his sketchy stuff, and he's like why are you aiding and abetting my child while Katsuya just like... flails xD asdfghjkl this needs to happen.
I did it! I found a theme, my high school English teacher would be so proud of me xD How wild though. That a game can be this out there, and still have such a down to earth and relatable problem. I mean, everyone grows up. None of us have fought demons, but we've all (or will) get through that awkward almost-adult phase.
I finally looked up her PQ2 art (late to the party) to compare, and I do like how it's like... close, because she's the same person, but altered because wow has she made some different choices.
uwu type characters are such a pet peeve of mine lol. Not that I dislike them, just like... I don't know, they put me on edge. Which I guess is a good thing, in this case! Man, imagine they're just like in class and someone has a mental shutdown because she knows where they are every minute of the day during school and can just target it that much. What a thing to live with :/
New comment: I'm trying to write out my P2 character cheat sheet because the next chapter's ready to post, and I got to Jun and I just wrote "sad boy :(" and have been staring at it lol. And I mean it's TECHNICALLY true but also probably not very helpful lol.
Yukino only arguably counts though because while she lead the team in the Snow Queen quest if you choose SEBEC she still didn’t expect THIS, y’know? Just because you’ve done it before doesn’t necessarily mean you automatically are prepared to do it again at a moments notice. And yeah, I do love that the EP characters kind of look at Tatsuya and see a crazy person (and Katsuya sees his brother who is now a crazy person lol).
I think Katsuya would win him over but Morgana would still be apprehensive about being treated like a cat. I think he’d justify it like “well, he really WANTS me to be a cat so even though I’m not I’ll let him pretend I am.” And with regards to the monster cat thing I think he’d still be happy to pet him, lol. And Morgana would be annoyed to be pet, but begrudgingly allow it.
To be fair, while Tsumi (the word used that was translated as sin) is traditionally and usually translated as sin, it’s also able to be translated as crime, so I think that the double meaning just doesn’t translate well to English, that it could also be translated as Innoccent Crime, Eternal Punishment. But yeah, I think it is unfair ): and I think that’s part of the point and why they chose to translate it as Sin at the same time, because I think it’s meant to be treated as monstrously unfair but still unavoidable.
Akira: Crime. I’m doing crime. Please don’t look into this. Tatsuya: *at Akira* Ok, but I know it’s not crime because Katsuya would never let you do crime. Katsuya: You don’t know that. Maybe I’m a criminal now! Tatsuya: … Katsuya: Ok, so I’m not, but I could be if I wanted to.
Yes, you did it! Themes are really fun when you can catch them, I think. It just makes everything make more sense and makes more of a complete story if you can find them! It’s actually fairly easy to spot if you pay attention, though; just think of how the story of Innocent Sin is about a group of friends who grew out of their friendship rediscovering it and then losing it again. And yeah, everybody gets through this time, and it sucks but at the same time I’m glad I’m doing it, tbh.
I love how Haru has unique eyes in PQ2 from every other character, nobody else has those whites in their eyes, it just sort of helps my design here because combined with her expression it makes her even more unsettling.
Ha, well, that was sort of the intent! I’m not a huge fan either, I think that kind of cutesy affect is really only useful FOR that sort of edge, where you find them uncomfortable and gross for reasons you can’t pinpoint, and then, whoops, looks like she’s an axe murderer, that explains it all. And yesssss, you get it! It could easily be a much scarier story just by changing this one thing.
LOL, well, I mean… you’re not wrong! I definitely do think that does sum up a lot of his character, lol! Of course you still technically should probably do more, but… it’s not inaccurate! I still love how we continually described him as needing to take a minute to just stare at the wall for like an hour and think about his life when you were playing. Because he so did.
Yeah she's just like half a step further along than everyone else, that's all. Tatsuya is a much better example of someone choosing to jump into it, and he looks absolutely crazy xD I love Katsuya's first reaction to seeing him just being so completely confused! I think one of my favorite small moments is him realizing Tatsuya is the deja vu boy Maya and Ulala have been talking about and just being like WHY.
This is going to be the weirdest friendship xD I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out.
I mean it does make more sense... but also I feel like Tatsuya carries it around like it's a sin, so I guess all my 'but that's not fair!' from before should also be shouted at him too lol. Obviously it wouldn't help his actual situation he's living in, but it might help him emotionally to be able to forgive and live with himself.
Akira shouting from the next room: Technically aiding and abetting is a crime! Katsuya thinking about the Phantom THIEVES: ...oh no
Okay fair, but there's a lot of stuff to pay attention to in these games lol. And it's hard to see what they're aiming for sometimes until it's all over and you can take a breath and think about it. Also, for the record, I really liked the guidance councilor from IS. They only bring it up a few times, but it still feels like the question has weight. Even knowing that most of his choices about what he's going to do in the future are going to be taken away from him, it still feels impactful.
I never notice stuff like that lol. I'm very unobservant outside of my main interest of games, which is basically like give me that story and let me see how I can start twisting it up lol. But I'm glad it worked out that way and helped you!
I wonder if Haru would end up dying like Akechi did? It's hard to imagine a parallel in Shido's Palace, but it's also hard to imagine how any hitman keeps going through the end of the story. And I wonder if she'd do what Akechi did and try to kill Akira...
I did write more lol. But he is a sad boy and he deserved better :( I wish he'd gotten... I don't know, at least a little more screen time in Eternal Punishment, honestly. His arc is so interesting, I would have liked to see it elaborated on a little more. Although on the other side it's hard to imagine how they would have done it, so I'm just going to keep being sad that he ended up being one of my favorites and his story wrapped up too soon.
This is making me wonder now how EP would have been different if Jun instead of Tatsuya had chosen to remember, actually.
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