Talia has been characterized differently over the years and through the various media, so fair to want more to work with before committing to a stance.
Yeah that intro for Damian was early on in Battle For The Cowl and I had the head tilt of confusion on what exactly his characterization was supposed to be. It seemed wildly inconsistent and incongruent with where he'd come from. Way too American Television Coded for a young immigrant boy raised in a cult. So I just kind of squint and keep the "I imagined you taller" bit and the trying to kill off the competition and the entitlement and arrogance, and ignore most early inconsistencies. The only bit I would keep from that sequence of events is Nightwing swooping in to save him from Killer Croc at the last second. It's both kind of a humbling moment for Damian, and basically cements the Big Brother Senses Are Tingling Trope for me. There's early canon stories of Dick swooping in for Jason and Tim, so it only seems fair that Damian get identified as Family to the reader in the same way, for storytelling purposes.
I mean, it would have made more sense for his character to just steal the Batmobile and try to BE Batman after Bruce's 'death' by picking fights with all the Rogues, rather than to take it out for a joyride to pick up hot singles in his area. (And would have fit the BFTC theme better too. Then ALL of the kids are pouring out of the anthill as frantic little Batmen until Dick finally tears his hair out and says, "FINE! I'll do it!")
So if I just scrub that out, he's got the genetic superiority and disdain for the placeholders and imposters denying him his 'birthright'. Which apparently, barring the Cowl itself, happens to be the title of Robin...which I swear how absolutely numb is Dick to just go, "Yeah, uh-huh, another Wayne claiming my family name and colors are YOUR property, yep, sure. Why the fuck not? *downs a bottle of vodka and an ambien* Wake me when the Batsignal lights, would you?"
I haven't heard about them possibly writing Damian out, since I'm only glancing at articles about the newer comics issues these days. I started falling off with Damian's death, then was pissed about the Spyral crap and was horrified by the Bats reaction to the Ric Arc, so I just kind of keep up from a distance. Hearing that Batman stomped Hood until Arsenal had to save him, and then later altered his brain chemistry in a way that left him vulnerable and possibly unable to defend himself kind of cemented canon Bruce as a villain to me?* (Interest was briefly piqued when Nightwing lost his shit on him for that, had hoped that was ramping up for a 'I Am Your Contingency, Batman' storyline.) But the very last update I heard on Damian was that he was thinking about becoming a Doctor...and Bruce was DISAPPOINTED. Like? Wat. This is not the same Bruce Wayne that wanted Dick to go to college and quit being a hero. Who the fuck is this man? Why would he not want his previously murderous blood son to come full circle and take up the legacy of his idolized dead father? Am I crazy?
I'm glad you're happy to hear from your readers. There's a bunch of unrelated tangents currently bouncing around in my head now, but I think I'll leave it hear because it feels like it'd devolve into nonsense before I managed to make any salient points. XD
*Yeah, altered mental state due to Zur, but he did that to himself intentionally, so *shrug*. If drunk drivers don't get a pass, neither does he.
I mean, it would have made more sense for his character to just steal the Batmobile and try to BE Batman after Bruce's 'death' by picking fights with all the Rogues, rather than to take it out for a joyride to pick up hot singles in his area. (And would have fit the BFTC theme better too. Then ALL of the kids are pouring out of the anthill as frantic little Batmen until Dick finally tears his hair out and says, "FINE! I'll do it!") Yes! Exactly! That's what I thought they were setting up and then I did a huge double take like ??? Who... proof read this? (Did anyone- oh, what am I even saying. No one proof'd anything.)
The only bit I would keep from that sequence of events is Nightwing swooping in to save him from Killer Croc at the last second. It's both kind of a humbling moment for Damian, and basically cements the Big Brother Senses Are Tingling Trope for me. There's early canon stories of Dick swooping in for Jason and Tim, so it only seems fair that Damian get identified as Family to the reader in the same way, for storytelling purposes. I'd clap if you could hear me! Full agreement and what a fantastic way of explaining it. The parallels were amazingly nice to see! ...and then they forgot about them again or proved they didn't realize they'd done exactly that.
"Yeah, uh-huh, another Wayne claiming my family name and colors are YOUR property, yep, sure. Why the fuck not? *downs a bottle of vodka and an ambien* Wake me when the Batsignal lights, would you?" Cleaning up my tea from the spit-take laugh I just did. Please pass the vodka, I am right there with you.
Robin as a mantle is a bizarre concept! And while I LOVE the creativity of the Reverse Robins concepts and fics....... the fact that these characters still use the name "Robin" often needles me. (Same with Bruce being alive and whole and having children never mind co-workers... but I digress, that's too big a battle. I always have to put that battle back on the shelf...)
I've got a post somewhere on here that compares "Robin" to a lightsaber - because it really did not feel like it was supposed to be passed down. Granted, I've been educated/made aware/informed that there's been a lot of retcons of the meaning behind Robin... but they're quite popular and most people seem to accept them? Beyond that, Jason later becoming Robin **because of Bruce giving him the costume/name** still felt quite wild given I'm almost positive that there's no continuity where "Dick leaves amicably after arguing about college" and "Jason Todd is NOT an orphan acrobat child" co-exist... if Jason is from Crime Alley then we're in the continuity where Bruce iced Dick out after Dick was shot by Joker.
And I know people buck at saying Bruce kicked Dick out... but honestly, if I'd been injured, had an argument with my guardian/dad/mentor/trusted older sibling where they explicitly blamed me for getting hurt, told me I had no place in the most important part of their life, and they then isolated and ignored me for several months? (And when Dick does leave... Bruce doesn't contact him. Like, okay par for the course with Bruce and people have spun it to be an "act of respect" but like... Dick was still a minor? He's closer to 17 for Nightwing's debut and he's with the Titans as Robin prior, yes? Granted Dick was incredibly capable and an outlier but the general idea is that a minor with no income, no access to any savings he might have had, and no paperwork wandered off into the sunset and Bruce was fine with that. I struggle.)
Also, PLEASE correct me if I got this mixed up (I am also sleep deprived AND super excited to chat) but the continuity where Dick "chooses to leave amicably" is from the older crossover point with Talia attempting to move in and Bruce wanting Dick to go to college, yes?
I started falling off with Damian's death, then was pissed about the Spyral crap and was horrified by the Bats reaction to the Ric Arc, so I just kind of keep up from a distance. Completely understandable. Terribly sad to say that you're not missing much and really serious when I say you've got a fantastic grasp of things despite apparently skimming, wow!
Interest was briefly piqued when Nightwing lost his shit on him for that, had hoped that was ramping up for a 'I Am Your Contingency, Batman' storyline. Absolutely me too. At least we can give Tim his second nickel for 'times he's had to stop Dick Grayson for beating a man to death for name dropping Jason Todd' ? It was very much somewhere between "awww, no, let him go Tim- well, no, it's good that they don't because- waitasecond- TIM?! ....again!?!?"
I heard on Damian was that he was thinking about becoming a Doctor...and Bruce was DISAPPOINTED. Like? Wat. This is not the same Bruce Wayne that wanted Dick to go to college and quit being a hero. Who the fuck is this man? Why would he not want his previously murderous blood son to come full circle and take up the legacy of his idolized dead father RIGHT?! I was shocked. Appalled. How did Thomas Wayne NOT get brought up immediately? What was that response? I don't like it. I don't like it at all for that I think it's a cool narrative choice!!!
*Yeah, altered mental state due to Zur, but he did that to himself intentionally, so *shrug*. If drunk drivers don't get a pass, neither does he. please shout that from the rooftops. Mind control is usually a pretty good out but NOT THIS TIME. Like. ARGH!
Yeah idk, DC Comics is having a grand time the last decade or so absolutely making Bruce into a villain while shouting about what a great father he is... the domestic abuse is off the charts, the plots are thin, and Bruce's solutions have started looking less like detective work and more like improbable games of mousetrap that are protected by Plot Armor TM.
Sorry if any of this does not make sense, I am rushing but omg you're hilarious and VERY CORRECT and tysm for sharing your thoughts!
Robin as a mantle is a bizarre concept! And while I LOVE the creativity of the Reverse Robins concepts and fics....... the fact that these characters still use the name "Robin" often needles me. YES! I agree wholeheartedly. I do read some reverse "Robins" fics from time to time, but I usually give up early on the ones where the Robin title is used by all of them. It makes no sense, even if it WASN'T a family name for Dick, it still wouldn't make sense. They are individual people, they're not interchangeable. If any of them were the inception partner, they'd make up their OWN name. So, I like the reverse stories where even as the last kid to come to the family, he's still the FIRST Robin. Iconic.
I think the only reverse series that still uses Robin for the others that I like is Relief by springfox. I don't really like the use of it for Jason, instead of something original, but I choose to overlook it, because I just like everyone's characterization so much. It's not finished, but the first two installments work as self contained stories, so if you just skip the unfinished third work, it's still satisfying. Basically fully realized adult hero Damian finds little Talon Dickie (who was abducted by Cobb as an infant), and identifies HARD with this traumatized assassin baby, and gives into his adoption genetics immediately. It might not be very canon friendly (I mean, reverse?) but it soothes the want for Found Family in the Bat fics for me. Since canon's so uncooperative on that front.
I know there are reverse or alternate universe stories that don't follow the Robin theme, that I like, but I can't for the life of me remember them. I'll have to peruse my reading history.
Now if you want validation for feeling like the others using Robin without Dick's influence is bogus, then I recommend the first installment of this series: Neurodegenerative by lapsedpacifist. It's in media res of Bruce forgetting Dick existed, and railing against the fact that the rest of the world has been manipulated by this imposter who's embedded himself as deeply into his family and the hero community as one can be. None of his family or allies can convince him that he could have been the one to be manipulated (the ego) until Dick asks him ONE QUESTION. It's soooo satisfying. The rest of the series is pretty emotionally fraught, but ends as well as can be expected of characters that are at least tangentially faithful to canon. XD
And Bruce absolutely kicked him out. It doesn't matter if he didn't say in full, "You can't be Robin AND you can't live here." There isn't a world where you tell your kid, "You're Fired", from a position that is UNPAID, and don't expect them to 'clean out their desk on the way out'. The language is telling: not grounded, not banned, not benched, not pulled, not forbidden. Fired. When Dick confided in Clark at the Daily Planet afterward, he was right on the money: "He can't fire you. It's not a job." But clearly Bruce thought it was? So if it was a job to Bruce, that means Dick is an employee to Bruce...so he has no right to trespass on Bruce's property after being relieved of his duties. The End.
Anyone who is screamed at that they're fired, would have the knee jerk response to LEAVE. It immediately puts you in the mindset that you are not welcome there, and you should vacate the premises before you are removed by force.
And kids are so sensitive to authority. Christ if I wasn't accidentally traumatized by my parents and teachers when I was younger. For things they never even meant! That a rational adult would probably brush off! But a grown man intentionally emotionally eviscerating a dependent in his care is 100% responsible for however said child interprets that outburst. It was never Dick's responsibility to make that right or interpret it correctly. It was Bruce's responsibility to be his GUARDIAN. And he didn't just fail, he threw it away.
He took on the responsibility for the life and well being of an orphaned child, he rescinded his right to irresponsibility. Dick's maturity or abilities or intelligence have no bearing on how Bruce should have conducted himself.
I'm not even going to touch on the total power exchange between a rich while billionaire and his minority ward. Children in most states in the US are viewed more as property than people. So much of their agency is held hostage by their parents and the laws of individual states. I graduated high school at 17 and immediately moved across the country on my own to test my independence only to discover I couldn't open a bank account without a parent or guardian PHYSICALLY present. So I had an assistant muralist job paid under the table (because I wasn't 18) that I couldn't put in an account for six months before that got sorted. So yeah, Bruce holds ALL the power and constantly abuses it.
The college thing is absolutely from the happier timeline, where things were much softer and nicer. However I do believe that Dick must have had some further education if only because at one point I'm pretty sure he was the curator of a museum? (You'd think you'd need credentials for that). And I could swear there are throw away lines in some comics after the retcon that nod back to the retcon. So it feels like this was just part of life that happened off screen after he was fired and out of Bruce's influence? I mean the original concept was that Dick dropped out of Hudson U because he couldn't keep up attendance to finish his Business degree because he was too focused on Robin, and just didn't care about business...so just replace that with being focused on Nightwing, and I could definitely see that being canon even today?
Now if you want me to tell you how he got any college education when I have no idea how he finished high school (if he did, or if he even got his GED?) then I don't have a clue. He was kicked out before finishing any of that, but somehow managed to be a police officer/circus manager/curator. So? Eh? Maybe he just autodidacted his way to glory and then hacked the records after the fact.
There are a lot of throw away lines in canon that take on a life in fanon. Like 'Little Wing' I think just arose in that one comic issue. And I think one of my favorites is from Batgirl Vol 1 #58, Cass is moving to Bludhaven and she was just doing the normal comics internal monologue and thinking to herself how Nightwing called it 'Gotham's wicked little step-sister', and because she didn't get the reference he read Cinderella to her and acted out the voices to make her laugh. It was a throw away line but things like that make fanon have him being the one to explain pop culture to anyone out of the loop in fics. So much personality and background gets hidden in little snippets that take on a life of their own.
And all my homies think Bruce is a villain. He might be redeemable in a hard reboot, but right now, I think he's pretty politically topical in all the ways I wish weren't relevant.
And I just hit the wall, so gotta go to bed now. I'll check if I missed anything tomorrow. ^_^ So tired.
All my homies hate Bruce Wayne Us and some of the Titans, really.
Dick's maturity or abilities or intelligence have no bearing on how Bruce should have conducted himself.
I want to frame some of your comments and this is absolutely one of them. Yes. Absolutely yes and absolutely this.
And how the heck Dick makes it after that... My brain just frog-hopped from: (1) the very nice retconn/flashback of Clark hosting Dick (unaware that Bruce had kicked Dick out, I think) and explaining the legend of Nightwing to him - (2) to that you're 100% right, it's highly unlikely that Dick was able to open a bank account, take a line of credit, HAVE a paper trail or economic footprint in order to do things like get an apartment or apply for a job and then (3) that the Titans, which were originally SO independent - did not use the Justice League's money - did not rely on them - actively defied them on multiple points from the very serious (Raven's origin stories) (who knows the Identities) (major villains and world ending schemes) to the mundane (Dick and Victor apparently filed taxes with the American government -- absolutely ridiculous but also hilarious on so many levels) ... and how the new Titans comics are outright infantilizing them is just infuriating. Like, Dick alone has been an active hero longer than most members of the JLA. Longer than some of them combined. I'm actually upset/angry by the latest comic and this truly bizarre depiction. Anyway!
There are moments and things where I give Bruce grace because he was so young when he adopted Dick. He didn't have a support system, he only had Alfred. And I know the fandom adores Alfred but I find him to be an incredibly flawed man. And honestly not a very good parent. Largely because he does not act as a parent towards Bruce. Which makes sense, he was never supposed to be one... but after Thomas and Martha died? Alfred likely needed to step in as parent... and I don't believe he does. The relationship remains defined by the fact that Alfred is the help and thus subservient. I have a lot of half-baked HCs about the fact that Alfred sees the Robins (all of them) as additional help first and children as a far second. I also think that Bruce throwing Dick out of the Manor goes a long way to explaining the (initial and shockingly brief) tension on Dick's part around Jason. Like, Dick is already inhumanly accepting but with the additional context that Dick didn't willingly walk away from not just Robin but from his home? Completely absurd that Dick barely crashes out on/at anyone at all. I respect the hell out of it (Dick not lashing out at Jason) but I think it contributes to why people struggle to believe that it's the CANON reaction and not a fanon CYA. It's just almost too mature/nice/reasonable in the face of an absurd to grim-dark set of concepts.
**SPECIFICALLY contrasted with Jason Todd's return, Damian's introduction and Tim Drake's crash out just prior to the RR arc.
Thank you for answering & confirming! That's reassuring.
To my knowledge, Dick's education is something of a blackbox. We know he has at least one bachelors degree and an American law degree (a JD). I figure he went back or did school class-by-class. Speaking of crazy canon, Dick's resume is ABSURD. The guy has been everything but a brick-layer and while some jobs were very low-hours or low-income others were certainly not. He's also a massive STEM and History nerd (and I love that for him).
Cass! I adored that comic and the descriptor of Bludhaven. Dick doing the voices after having finally been read in on Cass' backstory? Inferring that it wasn't something she'd experienced before AND that it would help her better ID the characters and understand what was going on!! ((Because I think this was back when they were really (ham handedly - yeesh, Babs) focusing on Cass' ability range and limitations; namely her struggle to communicate orally/aloud and not solely through body language.)) But oh! It was a throw away line but things like that make fanon have him being the one to explain pop culture to anyone out of the loop in fics. Huh! I hadn't realized that was either where it came from... and now that you've mentioned it I have seen it an awful lot in fics. Wow.
I think 'Little Wing' came back up a few times? But I know the one you're talking about. Dick and Jason are breaking in through a skylight and Dick makes up the nickname mid conversation / self banter.
Fandom takes little things and makes mountains out of it - sometimes it's amazing and sometimes its... very questionable.
Like, look, I love "Uncle Clark" but it's not canon. I mean, it warms my heart. Dick SHOULD have the whole JLA as older siblings/aunts/uncles and should get that privilege of being The Baby TM. Jason liking romance novels or being a Wonderwoman fan. Tim having some sort of caffeine addiction. A lot of them are hilarious to beautiful!
And then we sometimes get things like "Dick was horrible to Jason when Jason was Robin" and "Dick put Tim in Arkham" or "Jason was put in the Joker's cell" and I just. Ugh, the "Dick can't cook / take care of himself" ones too. I see them crop up and have to leave for awhile because why. How.
Who started those. I just want to talk.
Thank you for the fic recs! If its not too much, here are two of my own while I go read yours. Reverse Robins
I really only have two. under the wing of the dragon by our_peerless_leader
This one is still in progress but not only is the writing amazing, but the world building is stellar. You can see they put a lot of thought into what would have changed without going to world-breaking extremes. It's told through Dick (and so far Damian's) limited POV which makes catching cameos and putting things together the responsibility of the reader which is a neat trick! upside down and inside out by danishsweethearts
This is actually one of (if not) the first Reverse Robins I read. It's not perfect (I'm just not a Roy/Dick shipper so that made me double take) but it is INCREDIBLY good. The current chapter fic has some great twists and turns and they make great use of their own sandbox in shorter fics to explore the world and how it changed the characters.
So if it was a job to Bruce, that means Dick is an employee to Bruce...so he has no right to trespass on Bruce's property after being relieved of his duties. The End. RIGHT! I think I saw it put best in JackHawksmoor's The Power of Family and This Stalker I Found. They have Dick only stay in Alfred's "area" of the Manor (the servants quarters) because Dick genuinely holds that he's not family to Bruce - and Bruce in turn hasn't got a clue why Dick is acting the way he is let alone that Dick thinks that! Also, super fun world building, writing, and the dialog is top-notch.
Okay, I'm stopping there before I go too far into Ursala mode. Because it's true. I adore sharing fics and getting recs
*Is it really killing my little .gif? awwww
Thank you for chatting about canon and fanon! I'm off to check your fic recs out!
"and how the new Titans comics are outright infantilizing them is just infuriating." Oooooooooh, I seethe in rage. I don't know the whole context, because it was one of the arcs that I clicked through articles and snippets of panels from. But there was a story that had to do with Donna being an issue that Diana was hiding, and the Titans were backing her up, but then Nightwing and Batman had a private conversation and Dick said, "Have I disappointed you?" and Bruce's silence just makes him cave like an overdone souffle and he DISBANDS THE TEAM.
...what the ever-loving fuck DC? It would be a cold day in hell when Bruce's disappointment would make him disband a whole ass hero team. He started that fucking team to BUCK that bastard's control issues. He CHOSE that team over Bruce's emotional blackmail when he was a teenager. You are massacring my boy's character identity. STOP.
After writing that, I had to sit back and think, "I didn't actually read it, is that really how it went down? Or am I catastrophizing?"
When you used the word infantilizing, you weren't fucking kidding. These are actual adults who have been warriors for almost as long as they've been alive. Meaning they've lived this life more thoroughly than their mentors could ever understand. It's not a job it's their culture. It's their entire identity from the ground up. You can't willfully make a child soldier, and then lecture them about responsibility. The absolute gall.
I'll be honest, I am one of those schmucks who adores Alfred, but not because I'm under any illusions about his culpability. I just handwave and tilt my head and squint at a bunch of canon, because for Dick at least, he's a 50/50 split between genuinely loving and unforgivably manipulative. Like you'll have scenes of him making excuses for Bruce, but then you'll have some of him being the accomplice or comfort, and there's so many scenes of him actually taking Bruce to task over some of his bullshit decisions and just straight up overriding them to be good to his younger son. And obviously there's his glaring absence in a lot of crucial scenes which probably happens because writers don't want to actually deal with a permanent resident bearing witness to his employer beating the crap out of his ward. That adds too much complication to shock value drama.
Since comics are what amount to paperback soap operas, my brain accounts for a certain amount of bullshit that can be reasonably explained away, but once it passes a threshold, it tilts the scales from hero to villain. And I enjoy that characters can have good and bad comic arcs, because it gives fanfic writers different angles and stories to work with. I really love the good grandpa and manipulative asshole Alfred stories equally. With Bruce, he also used to be more equally split, so you could have the argument either way, but lately he's been firmly in the insane camp. So, most of the Batman fics I read resonate more believably to me, if he's written as the bad guy. Which sucks, because it makes him typecast as a villain, antithetical to his inception. Fortunately, Alfred is dead and can no longer circle the drain to becoming irredeemable in my eyes.
TL;DR Someone: "Alfred is a bad dad and grandfather." Me: *kicks dirt* "Yeeeeah, I know...but he's my enigmatic, British rapscallion."
"He's also a massive STEM and History nerd" Hehe ^_^, a couple of my favorite panels in comics are 1) The Flash Plus Nightwing (1997) #1, Nightwing sticks his fingers in what looks like a blood fountain, and then tastes it to identify the type of clay it is, while Flash is freaking out and gagging in the background. And 2) during Batman & Robin #21, Dick is educating Damian about the protected status of falcons leading to less pigeon infestation in US cities, and Damian sasses him about how 'interesting' that is. Guys, he just wants to share. :( Be nice.
And I also get really annoyed by all the character assassination that goes on in the fandom. For all of the characters, really, but I take it personally when it's Dick.
I'll also say, I do hate the 'he can't cook' trope to death, but I'm also kind of offended for BRUCE as well. Regardless of his villain status. I think it might actually be canon in some comics that Bruce can't cook? Maybe? And if it is...no it isn't. It can't be. He went on a solo world tour for years, and they want me to believe he never once had to feed himself? Bull. Shit.
I hate that trope in its entirety for any character that exists anywhere that has full mobility. If you can think and you can move, you can cook. You don't have to be a 'good' cook, you just have to be able to make food that is edible, and anyone can heat something in an oven or on a stove. It is the most basic, foundational thing that any self-sufficient human can do. If you burn water, or you use sugar instead of salt, or you set a toaster on fire, you're not incapable, you're weaponizing incompetence. I had to teach myself how to cook, the learning curve was about as dramatic as a straight line.
I had noticed 'under the wing of the dragon' recently and was waiting to see if it got completed. I'm not really sure what my requirements for reading an in progress fic are, but sometimes I read a description and decide I'll chance reading something that might not get finished, and sometimes I decide to hold off to see if it gets completed first. Can't tell you what twigs the 'I need to see how it ends' vs 'I'm fine with enjoying the journey even if it never resolves', but clearly my subconscious has criteria for that. *absolutely mystified by my own mind* Regardless, I'll peek in and get a feel for it, see if it's one that I can enjoy as is.
Even though I've scrubbed the 'Dick Grayson' tag at least twice in its entirety over the past four years, I must have missed the other two, because they aren't familiar. I'll get on those now.
I read a couple of months ago that some bad actors were spamming gifs in comments to crash the site, so they had disabled that for the time being, so I'd just not tried to use them since, I guess this means they're still disabled? Not sure if that's something they're working on or if it's low priority.
Yeah the newer interpretations of Dick Grayson are just... awful. They stole his spine! His rage! His passion and convictions! Ugh. I'm only upsetting myself. Moving on.
Alfred
Honestly? Same. He's in the boat with Dumbledoor (Harry Potter) and Iroh (Avatar the Last Airbender) for me. I do think well of them even though I know they're incredibly manipulative. More than that, they at least permitted (if they were not directly culpable for) on going child abuse. They then profited directly off of and because of the behaviors that said abuse resulted in... with knowledge of the abuse too, not just the symptoms/habits of the kid. Its an ongoing fight inside of me. Because they knew better and had a responsibility to the child in question. Worse still, they even arguably had the power and ability to do something... buuuut they also had longer reaching plans and other responsibilities. Then there's the fact that no character, however good, is infallible.
So yes, I generally PREFER to NOT think of the characters in a bad light... but I also struggle to ignore it. Fic is SUBJECTIVE! And my tolerance changes daily - same as the topics we touched on elsewhere here!
Someone: "Alfred is a bad dad and grandfather."
Me: *kicks dirt* "Yeeeeah, I know...but he's my enigmatic, British rapscallion."
LOL well put! I think like with all things a balance is necessary.
Basic Life Skills
YES. Oh my goodness, agreed on all counts. the learning curve was about as dramatic as a straight line. LOL! But also aarghhh, I know! It can be frustrating but honestly its rather simple. Sometimes it can be time consuming but that's about the hardest part. The expense and the time. Otherwise? Really not a big deal!!
Also YES that was so funny. The confidence lmao
Awwww, Damian what? That's right up his alley too.
Fics
I have so many restrictive tags on my Dick Grayson searches that I also miss fics... just have been burned a few too many times. I find I am also just more sensitive when it comes to mischaracterization/nerfing/belittlement of Dick. :( I do my best to keep it OUT of my comments (I know where the back button is and it's my choice to read/keep reading) but every now and then I see something and it pings my radar that like... the author probably just doesn't know. Like they probably only read fanfiction and so they think X weird fanon take is canon. ...and then I have to make the decision as to whether I say something (politely as I can) or just let it go haha
Sometimes it doesn't go over well. Other times it can be fun! I've had some great chats with authors/other fans now about X Y or Z interpretation and its given me the confidence to keep interacting in fandom. This whole fic & our chat is a good example of that :)
TLDR: Fics and people's taste in them are subjective.
So while I hope you enjoy the ones I've shared, there's no worries at all if not :)
So for 'under the wing of the dragon', I'll give it an A+ for writing and characterization, and a tentative thumbs up for the story as it stands so far. Right now it seems its given us a good grasp of the setting and where the individual characters stand in this world, but since it is mostly set up, and I can't actually predict which direction the plot is going to go, I'll leave it at: I'm cautiously optimistic about my enjoyment as it unfolds.
I will say I meant to preface the 'Relief' series I recommended with the caveat that Dick is not himself. I mean, he wasn't raised in the circus, so he's kind of a blank slate, but to me it was interesting to see the rest of the family react to/around him, and who they are without him as the standard. And to me is kind of a haunting, 'Who are you, if not your experiences?' tale. Like, to me, that would be an interesting crossover verse with the main universe. What would the intrinsically proud Last Flying Grayson and First Robin feel about meeting a separate self that identifies as neither of those? That's more of a personal thought experiment than an endorsement of the fic though, so, grain of salt, I guess.
And seguing into crossover universes, I'm really into the 'upside down and inside out' series. The main and inverse bats getting unnerved by each other is fascinating. Right up my alley. 'What ifs' getting answered is like catnip for me. Therapeutic you could say. Some people watch Oddly Satisfying videos, I read stories about people being forced to look into the fun house mirror and comprehend themselves.
And that leads me to another recommendation from me, because the final/ongoing work of that series, 'going round the twist', gave me some deja vu. It's not a 1:1 comparison, but it really resonated with me, and made me think of the work Recollect Re-collect by Ptelea.
'going round the twist' occurs because Jason pissed off a magic user, who cursed him, and now he and his family have to communicate things that have been left unsaid between them in order to break it, or else there will be consequences. The big elephant in the room, being Robin itself. 'Recollect Re-collect' is basically that exact premise, just different curse, no crossover universe, and the consequences are different, but still, it was uncanny in a good way to come across a similar plot.
I've read almost everything that Ptelea has posted on ao3 and love it, because it feeds the very specific desire to see the bats actually be familial. Most are Dick-centric (awesome in my book) and the fics are more character studies or exploration of relationships than they are action stories. There might be action referenced, but it's not usually the focus. I will say Dick's characterization is semi dependent on the story, because some are more lighthearted (Recollect is more emotionally fraught than most, so more serious) and I feel like he leans more toward the levelheaded, big brother trope (less angry/more chill), but it's also not egregious, so it's up to your personal preference whether you'll like their stuff.
(There is a touch of the Can't Cook Trope in a couple of the fics, but it's less 'I'm garishly incompetent', and more 'I'm lazy and this is the one thing I'm choosing not to be a perfectionist about', and the siblings mildly ribbing him about it. I guess it kind of bops the trope right on its nose actually, like 'yes, flaws can humanize a character, but they don't have to be crude crayon drawings of a child's impression of a flaw, just realistic limitations'.
God, I'm going on it again. Like, from a literary standpoint, 'I Can't Cook' isn't a flaw. It's a vehicle by which you expose the flaw. And that could be apathy, spite, cowardice, ego, etc. The lack of knowledge isn't the flaw, the reason why you choose not to gain knowledge is.
*sigh* ...thank you for coming to my TedTalk.)
'Recollect' is pretty long, I think around 95k word count, so if you want a taste to see if their stuff is up your alley, maybe try Carry . It's about 5k oneshot. It might be more lighthearted and not a fair comparison to the grittier long fic, but it'll still introduce their writing style and how their characters interact.
I'm honestly of the opinion you should just start at the bottom/their oldest work (under the Batman - All Media Types list) and work your way up**, because I'm biased and think they're all great. And they're all family oriented. Most of them are snapshots of the fan fantasy relationship between Dick & Jason, where we're all rooting for canon to one day decide: "yes, this jerk pisses me off, and drives me up the wall, and sometimes I don't understand him (sometimes I understand him too much), but He's. My. Brother. and I love him, goddamn it!"
I guess the premise of 'family is work, but it's worth it', is one that resonates with me. Because I find these fics soothing.
'The Power of Family and this Stalker I Found' is still on my list. I got a bit intimidated by the 100k word count, cause I also try to read new works as they come out and that's a lot of personal time investment. But I think I'll have some breathing room this weekend to take a crack at it.
And I think I should probably get to bed now. Thanks for the recs, and if anything else I've suggested makes you think of other fics I might like, let me know! :)
**honorable mentions of their other works: Shelter-verse, Chatterbox (unofficial prequel/sequel to Recollect Re-collect), and The 70 Days After Groundhog Day. But like I said, I love them all. <3
I think I'm right there with you for 'under the wing of the dragon' as far as 'cautiously optimistic' goes. That said, I think it's off to a great start already.
I absolutely adored Recollect Re-collect by Ptelea! Have had it bookmarked for awhile - it's SUCH a good execution of concept and use of the miscommunication trope! And the way they juggled multiple character voices? Amazing.
I read stories about people being forced to look into the fun house mirror and comprehend themselves. Which is fascinating and terrifying and not a thing I'd ever want to experience haha. The 'Relief' series and your thoughts on it seem like a great example of the above concept. I'll have to take a look when I've got time to sit down and appreciate them.
*claps loudly* No! Don't cut off a ramble or a rant! You're absolutely right. It's all about balancing things and using them in moderation. The lack of knowledge isn't the flaw, the reason why you choose not to gain knowledge is. I think I need that framed.
I don't have anything leaping to mind, but I will give it an actual think!
70 Days After Groundhog Day I REMEMBER THAT FIC. That one was brutal but so good. There were parts that made me go "ehhh" but on the whole it was very enjoyable. I sat down and consumed it and almost got lost in it again just now to double check which fic it was.
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