Archive of Our Own ^beta

Chapter Text

Flowey
What’s LV stand for? Why, LOVE, of course! You want some LOVE, don’t you?

Socrates
No, I would not say I do.

Flowey
You don’t?

Socrates
I do not. If, as you say, that blue heart is my soul, is it then dissevered from my body?

Flowey
Yes, I suppose. But I don’t see…

Socrates
And would you not say that love is one of the bodily pleasures, like eating and drinking?

Flowey
Yes, but…

Socrates
And that, as a philosopher, I should only be concerned with the acquirement of knowledge?

Flowey
I suppose so.

Socrates
Would you also agree that knowledge is a matter of the soul, and love a matter of the body?

Flowey
Sure.

Socrates
Then should I not prefer to have my soul avoid love, and instead have my soul only be concerned with learning?

Flowey
You know what? Have fun. I’m outta here.

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Socrates
This plaque reads “Only the fearless may proceed. Brave ones, foolish ones. Both walk not the middle road.” You pressed only the buttons that were off the middle path. Does that mean, then, that you consider brave people to be fearless?

Toriel
Yes, that is what the puzzle means.

Socrates
It is indeed what the puzzle means, but the intention of my question was to ask whether you believe so yourself.

Toriel
I do.

Socrates
What, then, do you say of an animal that endangers itself because it lacks knowledge and therefore doesn’t have fear? Would such an animal be brave?

Toriel
No, that is just foolish.

Socrates
And a soldier that charges into battle in spite of his fear? Is such a man courageous?

Toriel
Yes, he is.

Socrates
Then it is possible to be brave without being fearless, and to be fearless without being brave, so courage is not the same as fearlessness.

Toriel
You are right. I cannot readily explain what it means to be brave. However, this is just a puzzle. It is not meant to be taken so seriously. You are a very unusual man.

Chapter Text

Papyrus
Really though! That human! Do I know that person?

Sans
Do you not know who you know?

Papyrus
Of course I know who I know! I wanted to know if you know I know who I know as much as I know I know who I know! You know?

Socrates
But how do you truly know you know you know who you know?

Papyrus
What?

Socrates
You claim to have knowledge about knowing who you know. How can you be certain of that knowledge?

Papyrus
I should know, shouldn’t I?

Socrates
Let us see. Do you believe that you are aware of which things you know?

Papyrus
Of course! I know what I know because I know.

Socrates
But what of false beliefs? Are they too a kind of knowledge?

Papyrus
Hmmm. Well, if they’re not true, then I don’t know them. I just think I know them.

Socrates
Then you do not know which things you know, because the belief in knowing some of them is false.

Papyrus
But I don’t actually know the things I think I know but don’t know, don’t I?

Socrates
Indeed.

Papyrus
Aha! So if I don’t know the things I think I know but don’t know, then I do know I know all the things I do know!

Socrates
It is as you say that you should know about all your true beliefs. In that same way, a good playwright should know what makes a good play, and a cook should know whether a meal is good.

Papyrus
That’s true.

Socrates
Would you agree that is how they can be said to know plays, and to know meals?

Papyrus
Yes.

Socrates
And would a playwright who knows plays recognize a bad play, or a cook who knows food recognize a bad meal?

Papyrus
Ah! You’re saying that to know what I know I need to know what I do not know, not just what I do know!

Socrates
That is it exactly. To be a good playwright requires to be able to distinguish between good plays and bad plays. And a good cook should know the difference between good meals and bad meals. And to be wise, one needs to tell apart good beliefs and bad beliefs. One needs to know what one does not know as much as what one does know.

Papyrus
Yes! But! Now that we know how to know whether we know what we know, we still don’t know whether you can solve this puzzle!

Sans
Hey, thanks. I think my brother likes having someone to talk to.

Chapter Text

Undyne
That’s right, human! Your continued existence is a crime! Your life is all that stands between us and our freedom!

Socrates
It is interesting that you should say my existence breaks the law. Do you believe I should obey the law?

Undyne
Of course! That’s what the law is for!

Socrates
But different places have different laws. The laws here are not the laws in Athens, and the laws in Athens are not the laws in Thessaly.

Undyne
I am just going to come down from this rock, so we can stop shouting! Stay where you are!

Socrates
I would never flee an attempt to find the truth. Now, when there is a different law for each place, and not all laws can be followed, how ought we to decide which law to follow?

Undyne
That’s simple. The law of where you are.

Socrates
But why, my dear Undyne, should we follow that law? Should we also do whatever any person tells us to do? How should we decide which people to obey?

Undyne
I guess you should listen to your parents, or your boss.

Socrates
And why should one obey one’s parents?

Undyne
Because they take care of you? I mean, they know best.

Socrates
Very well. Now, you say that the law of the land where you are should be followed. Does the same go for people? Is it for the same reason that you should obey the rules of a house you visit?

Undyne
Hey! We’re not fighting! Papyrus told me humans were talkative. I see now what he meant by that!

I’ll throw you a spear. Defend yourself!

Socrates
Of course. Now, please answer me, for I would like to find the truth. Should you obey the law for the same reason you should obey the master of the house when you are a guest?

Undyne
Woah! Where did you learn to block like that?

Socrates
At the battle of Delium, after I lost my shield. Now, by the dog, tell me, dear Undyne, do you believe-

Undyne
Okay, okay! Yeah, you should listen if you’re a guest. Otherwise it’s just rude, and you shouldn’t have visited in the first place. Now, block this!

Socrates
Then do you believe that you should obey those people who care for you in return, and that you should obey the people you visit, because you chose to accept their hospitality?

Undyne
Yeah.

Socrates
And is it by the same principles that you should obey the law?

Undyne
Ngahh! Yeah, what’s your point?

Socrates
My point, Undyne, is this. When I lived in Athens, I obeyed the law of Athens. Athens was the state where I was born, and the state where I was educated. The state I fought for, and the state where I made my home. I could have left had I wanted to, and I did not, so when the state decided I was to be punished I accepted that, and did not fight it. Likewise, when the punishment of banishment was settled upon, I left the city, as required.

I decided to travel to Lacedaemon, because I have heard their government is good, and had I arrived there, I would have followed its law, even when inconvenient. I made the decision to make my new home there, so I should follow it, even if I did not like it.

But on my trek there, over the mountain, I fell into the underground. I did not choose to visit this place, and neither can I leave, so I did not accept its laws. I am trying to leave, and the underground never provided me with anything, so I have no obligation to obey its rule.

Undyne
Okay! Whatever! What are you trying to do?

Socrates
I am merely explaining that even if my existence is a crime, that does not compel me to end it, because it is not necessary for me to follow the laws of the underground.

Undyne
Oh my god! Shut up! Just die already!

Chapter Text

Mettaton
Next question! A memory game. Which monster is this?

A. Froggit
B. Whimsun
C. Moldsmal
D. Mettaton

Socrates
Mettaton, my dear enemy, I am afraid that I must reject all the four choices that you have laid out before me. Tell me, can that what I see talk, or can it perhaps croak?

Mettaton
My face is a soundboard! Let me just—

Socrates
Can it walk, or engage me in battle, as so many of the monsters in this realm have done?

Mettaton
No, darling. It’s a projection on the wall.

Socrates
But Mettaton, how can this be? Just a moment ago you assured me that I was looking at a monster. Is this another one of your trick questions?

Mettaton
I knew you lot on the surface were behind the times. I didn’t know it was this bad! It’s a projection of a monster.

Socrates
Is there then a light source in front of which a monster sits, the shadow of which is cast upon the wall?

Mettaton
I see your game! I’m going to play along. You want to ask me questions? Let’s switch places, you’re the quiz master now. Here’s my microphone, here’s the control panel. Zap me if I take too long. Feed Alphys the correct answers so she can keep making her cute hand gestures.

Socrates
Very well. Mettaton, now please tell me…

Mettaton
If you want to get technical about it it’s a projection of a drawing of a monster. Do I win?

Socrates
I admit I still do not understand the meaning of your words but I trust you can explain them to me. You say that the drawing is of one of the monsters but not of any of the others.

Mettaton
That’s right!

Socrates
Then is there a quality that is different in drawings of different monsters, just as the monsters themselves have different qualities?

Mettaton
Yes. They look different. Can’t you tell?

Socrates
And this difference in appearance is also a difference that exists between monsters?

Mettaton
It sure is! Does Alphys here, lizard that she is, look the same as a Whimsun?

Socrates
Indeed she does not. But what kind of monster are you?

Mettaton
Me? Why, I’m not a monster at all. Didn’t Doctor Alphys tell you that I’m a robot?

Socrates
Of course you are. Please excuse this old man’s memory. But if a Whimsun were to dress up as a lizard, in one of those ingenious costumes used for theater, it would gain that quality of appearance. Would it thereby become a lizard?

Mettaton
Who is to say! There’s an old saying: if it looks like a snail and it crawls like a snail…

Tell me, what is it that causes a Whimsun to look like a Whimsun?

Socrates
That question reaches far beyond my knowledge. I am like a choosy drunkard, wholly unskilled in the craft of wine-making, but possessing a developed taste. All the wine that is offered to me I gratefully take in, but I only swallow the good wine while I spit out—

Mettaton
But Socrates, you surprise me! Yesterday you had quite the shrewd solution to this problem. Alphys, roll the clip.

Alphys
There’s, there’s hours of footage from dozens of cameras, maybe if you give me a quick overview and ten minutes to sift through it all—

Mettaton
Pah! I’ll summarize. You were talking with a Woshua about… What was the topic? Yes, I remember! Sanitation!

You prodded them and got them to conclude that cleanness was about… (Cue drumroll.) Ideal forms! Who could have guessed!

Your robes, say, have an ideal form that all robes share. That ideal form is perfect, beautifully designed, not a single tear or speck of dust. But your actual robes—well, questionable fashion aside, they’ve got holes, they’ve got plenty of dirt, and is that there a soup stain?

Socrates
Your eyes are as sharp as your wit.

Mettaton
Why, thank you! Now, to wash your robes or to mend them is to bring their appearance closer to their ideal form. This is what you said, isn’t it?

Socrates
I may have said something of the sort.

Mettaton
And you agree with it?

Socrates
I suppose I do, Mettaton.

Mettaton
Cleaning solves one problem, and mending another. Washing a dress won’t fix any cuts. Just a hot tip for all the house-spouses watching from home! What say we view it in those terms? Someone who puts up a performance moves closer to their ideal form.

Socrates
This is incredible! Are you telling me that if I went up on a stage, and I pretended to be a cow, that I would be, in my ideal form, a cow?

Mettaton
Do you want to go up on the stage and pretend to be a cow?

Socrates
I do not.

Mettaton
There you have it, folks! He doesn’t act like a cow, he won’t act like a cow, and sure enough, he’s not a cow. Score one for my theory—unless there’s something you’ve been hiding from us, Socrates?

Socrates
Mettaton, I feel you have led us astray. What does any of this have to do with the drawing you showed me?

Mettaton
Socrates, darling, you’re the one who steered us here! You asked how this drawing here—this very mysterious, highly unidentified drawing—could have its appearance in common with the monster it depicted. And so I have been explaining that everything is always exactly what it appears to be.

Socrates
Very well, I will sample your theory. I will take it in my mouth, and taste it, and find whether it is to my liking, and I will do this by applying it to the question at hand.

You have told me that every thing moves to its true appearance thanks to its nature. I must assume that you appear in this mechanical form, a curiously shaped Talos, because this is who you are and this is the appearance your creator wishes you to take—or one you yourself wish to take, perhaps?

Mettaton
So far, so good!

Socrates
Now let us consider the drawing. I am always forthright about my true feelings and opinions, and I am loathe to delay them and thereby hold us away from truth. I would certainly not suggest my knowledge is even less than its pitiful true extent. Therefore I will admit that the drawing resembles a Froggit.

This appearance was instilled in it by something or other, and since I have never once seen a drawing that could draw itself, it must have come from the will of a person. From you, perhaps? Are you an artist, Mettaton?

Mettaton
I dabble.

Socrates
You have told me passionately that this will, this imposition of the form, reflects identity. That if I were to create a costume of a cow, as people of myth are wont to do when the urge compels them, this would be because I am a cow—and so the appearance matches its progenitor.

Now since you have told me that this drawing was created by you, drawn by your will…

Mettaton
Yeeeeeees?

Socrates
That must mean it’s you, Mettaton.

Mettaton
Amazing! Incredible! You are absolutely correct!

Well, perhaps a smidgen incorrect. Your reasoning was completely off. Oh so off. Let us have another look at the drawing.

It’s me, you see?

Socrates
Forgive an old man, but is this truly the same image as before?

Mettaton
The very one! Maybe I was careless with the projector earlier. Maybe I accidentally cut a bit off the edges. But that’s life! A brief and narrow look is all we get. And then we have to assume the rest.

Socrates
And what is that tunic? I have seen its like but was unable to determine how it fastened.

Mettaton
That, darling, is what we in the underground call a “T-shirt”. If you join me for a fashion consult I can get you up and running, help you out of those robes…