Love the One You're With

I noticed there isn't a single fic in this fandom categorized as F/M without M/M. Since yaoi is so popular in almost every major fandom regardless of whether M/M ships are canonical in them, I decided to write this. I fully expect this fic will be unpopular simply because I wrote a straight fic in a yaoi fandom (AKA, doing the reverse of what's so popular on AO3).
And thanks, AO3 mods, for deleting my third fic (out of a whopping 5) and banning me for a month with no warning. Because, in case you didn't know, AO3 deletes fanworks even if they aren't in violation of their TOS. See https://freespeechhub.blogspot.com for more info on AO3 censorship.
Fic Summary:
Jack and Ennis mutually decide to just stay friends and to work on patching up their relationship with their wives.

Notes:

(See the end of the work for notes.)

Work Text:

“You know, Jack, I've been thinkin',” Ennis says as he stokes the campfire.

“'Bout what?” Jack replies as he prepares a breakfast of eggs in the frying pan.

“'Bout us and where this whole crazy train we're on is leadin' us.”

Jack perks up at the mention of what they have. “Oh, yeah?”

“Yeah. Me and Alma've been talkin'...” he stares off into the distance. “We...we went to a marriage counselor recently and have been workin' on...” He kicks at a patch of dirt on the ground listlessly as he deliberates over his word choice for what he wants to say next. “Jeez, why is this so fuckin' hard to say!?” He hesitates for several moments as he messes with his already unkempt hair, taking a deep breath before mustering the courage to continue: “We've been workin' on patchin' up our relationship recently, Jack. I...I really wanna stay with her since we got the kids and all, y'know. And...and I think it's not right to keep cheatin' on her like this. She's a good gal. She don't deserve this.”

A nearly interminable silence follows as Jack lets his words sink in. They both simply stare off into space. Fearing the worst, Ennis finally turns to his lover and prods: “So? Ain't ya got nothin' to say about that?”

Jack sighs deeply. He likewise has to muster some courage before he can speak. “Well...truth be told, Ennis, I was thinkin' about goin' to a marriage counselor about me and Lureen too. I think we could still work things out between us, that it's not too late. Guess now's as good time for that as any, huh?”

Ennis laughs. “Yeah...guess so...”

Jack places the frying pan over the campfire, watching the eggs as they slowly cook. After a long pause, he adds: “I'll never forget what we had here, Ennis. I just...I think things are gonna be better this way. And y'know what? I'm abso-fuckin'-lutely positive that one day, relationships like ours will outnumber the straight ones. Just the child support payments alone'll make sure of that!” he snickers.

“Yeah, no kiddin'!” Ennis chuckles. “I just wish that time would hurry up and get here already...” he adds wistfully.
.
.
.
10 years later...

Jack and Ennis sit side by side at a sprawling dining table filled to the brim with all manner of delectable foods. Alma and Lureen sit opposite them, holding glasses of wine high in celebration. Their children sit at the opposite end of the table, flinging peas at one another as they giggle maniacally. Each face at the table sports a wide smile as they all laugh at some silly joke they just shared about the shortcomings of the current president.

It seems that, ever since Jack and Ennis went to the marriage counselor with their wives, their relationships improved to the point that each couple now regularly holds grand get-togethers for all their closest friends. And the closest of these friends is, of course, the one that each family's patriarch made up on Brokeback Mountain all those years ago...

Notes:

I made this fic as a test of my theory that there are a large number of heterophobes on AO3. After all, I can't think of any reason why so many fandoms are infested with nonsensical, implausible pairings (the vast majority of which are yaoi, of course, and a ton of them are irrationally popular despite offering no context for the 'ship) other than avoidance/ignorance of the canonical pairings due to heterophobia...Although I guess there are some people who do it just because hot guy + hot guy = canonical context is no longer necessary for the relationship to be “hot.”
Despite how there's a ton of fans of many straight ships too, it appears that just about none of us is infesting the yaoi fandoms with nonsensical straight pairings despite the fact that, yes, many of us do occasionally partake in and even enjoy entertainment revolving around same-sex relationships.
Please note how my fic went further than the vast majority of yaoi fics by, y'know, acknowledging that the canon relationship exists and by having the characters from the canonical pairing offer a rational explanation of why they're leaving that relationship for one with a person of another gender (a relationship that they were already in, even!).
Flames are more than welcome and will only serve to prove my point because, believe it or not, I like some fandoms & fics that contain yaoi pairings but only if they're canonical or at least plausible (Jack/Ennis is one of those I do actually like).
Update: Since the only intelligent comments I got came from people who either supported me or at least didn't flame/troll (just b/c I welcomed flamed doesn't mean that flaming was all you could do) is yet more evidence that a ton of fanfic readers & writers are heterophobes who get easily outraged over even legit criticism of their "fanworks." I'm still waiting for a decent counterargument, but at this point, I'm all but sure I didn't get one because my theory is 100% fact

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Kudos

CherryPine6, HarmoniaLovepoison, broken_pencils, cannibalprophet, CTrees, on_the_wing, Moreta, setsuna, EtreHumain42, and Victorious56 as well as 3 guests left kudos on this work!

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Victorious56 Mon 04 Dec 2023 10:49AM UTC

You're right, I don't think there is another BBM fic that takes this path! And while it's the tragic "what might have been" for Jack and Ennis which many of us love so much, you offer a possibility which is perhaps kinder to all those involved.
Thanks for posting :)

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1. lemnlime Tue 05 Dec 2023 02:49PM UTC
  
  Thanks for your thoughtful comment and for being open-minded to the fic's scenario. Yes, I think that the barometer of success for a relationship shouldn't be whether they're romantically involved for life but whether they're satisfied with whatever relationship they have because this reflects the reality that relationships tend to evolve over time.
  
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Rakina2003 Fri 08 Dec 2023 07:42PM UTC

I understand what you mean but the success of Boys love and Girl love may be because it feels like something forbidden or different from heterosexual stories (much more common in the media) not only because of heterophobia, but it can also be said that there are a large number of heterophobes and homophobes on Ao3 because everyone has some kind of prejudices and they become evident with the fanfics in which the writers are less limited than the professionals, which is why there are also fanfics with heterosexual couples that would not make any sense in the canon either and of stories with canonical gay couples who change one's gender to make them a heterosexual couple, even this fanfic ended better for those who had a homosexual relationship and committed adultery because they decided to be just friends and continue with their heterosexual marriages

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chalkmoney Sat 23 Dec 2023 10:40AM UTC

I clicked on this because it's 2am and I thought your summary was funny! Fandom should be well-rounded and for everyone, so when you noticed a gap in the fic here, you filled it :) Your notes at the end threw me off guard, as (again, I agreed with your premise) you seemed to take this very seriously. I don't want to flame your work, and get bogged down there, so I will just focus on your mandate that fic must uphold canon or be whatever you deem plausible. Can you expand on this? I doubt we're in any of the same fandoms, so I'm just overall curious how you reached that conclusion. <3

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1. lemnlime Sat 23 Dec 2023 02:16PM UTC
  
  Sorry if it sounds like I was mandating that fics be a certain way. I'm certainly open to the possibility that a fic featuring a noncanonical pairing can be plausible if done right, but from what I've seen, they're almost always just self-indulgent wish fulfillment fantasies. I have been banned from a certain subreddit just because I dared to criticize the nonsensical aspects of many noncanonical shipfics and so this is a pet peeve of mine. I literally saw a post on that same subreddit that claimed there was a "hetero agenda" that "needs to be stopped" and it got over 10 upvotes! This is practically a call to arms against heterosexuals and makes me wonder what is wrong with these people that they think these attitudes are OK.
  I literally just had another fic of mine deleted from AO3 for bogus reasons so of course, I had to write an expose about censorship on AO3 which you can read here if interested: https://freespeechhub.blogspot.com
  
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2. 1. chalkmoney Sun 24 Dec 2023 03:16AM UTC
    
    Genuinely hurts my feelings that you're deleting comments. I was speaking with you in good faith, but you're basically just rage baiting. It's disrespectful and you clearly don't believe in your own "free speech" argument.
    
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  2. 1. lemnlime Sun 24 Dec 2023 03:30AM UTC
      
      Welp, censorship seems to be the AO3 way. Why else do they let authors control the comments section? Makes you kinda mad to see, doesn't it? Now you know how I feel about this site 😞
      
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    2. 1. chalkmoney Sun 24 Dec 2023 03:43AM UTC
        
        I do hope you know I didn't found this site, and I can't censor you even if I tried. I really hope you get whatever you want out of your fics and the greater fandom community. Until then, please try and take it easy.
        
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anna (Guest) Sat 23 Dec 2023 03:49PM UTC

i can understand your point with some fandoms and ships (eddie and steve in stranger things) but i cannot understand why you used this fandom for this idea. of course there are no exclusively m/f fics in this fandom, it was a groundbreaking gay romance movie. despite your intention, your straightening of these landmark characters, as well as acting like there is some "heterophobic" injustice going on here, is homophobic. why would you have chosen this fandom which did so much for the way americans view homosexuality as your holy land to preach about the non existent "heterophobia" (do you believe in reverse racism too? or male sexism? straight people are not marginalized and therefore cannot be oppressed). there is a reason there are no m/f fics in this fandom and it is not "heterophobia," nor is it in any fandom.
about your last comment, there is no law book saying fanfic has to be canonical (you saying so is oxymoronic) or even plausible. these stories are not proposed for the canonical extension of the fandom, their only purpose is for the writers enjoyment. you are allowed to not like them, but acting like it is wrong that they exist goes against the purpose of fanfic.
it seems like you are just taking this more seriously than it needs to be. another commenter said "Fandom should be well-rounded and for everyone, so when you noticed a gap in the fic here, you filled it :)" but if you feel like you need content about straight people in informal spaces like fandoms in order to feel like it is "for everyone" then i feel like there are other issues going on. if a piece of canonical media is specifically focused on a marginalized community (such is brokeback), there is no problem with there being "a gap" in the fandoms. this is just as strange as if you were to go to the heartstopper fandom and make fics about straight people just to prove a point of "heterophobia", or in the encanto fandom and make fics about white people just to prove a point of "white erasure".
again, i can see your point for some ships, but this was the wrong fandom to make it in. brokeback mountain is canonically about gay people, so the fics being about gay people makes sense. in many other fandoms, gay fics became popular due to a lack of representation in the cannon media. i think you just have a very ignorant perspective of this whole topic and are boiling the complexities of homophobia and representation to "heterophobia." its not that serious, its literally just fanfic.

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1. lemnlime Sat 23 Dec 2023 05:12PM UTC
  
  I just picked this fandom because I'm a fan of it and there wasn't a single fic categorized as just F/M yet and I was trying to make a point. I'm willing to bet you had a teacher ask you to write something at some point that was basically a fanfic and if you had turned in the typical noncanonical shipfic with wildly OOC characters and zero explanation for how it even connects to canon, you would have probably gotten a low grade and the teacher would have basically written "WTF?" on your paper. The less a fic is connected to canon and the more OOC the characters act, the more a fic is just an original fic masquerading as a fanfic.
  And I see your attitude about "reverse racism, sexism, etc not being a thing" all the time. Go read the equal opportunity laws and you'll see that yes, reserve discrimination is still discrimination and it does actually happen on a micro level (teacher/student, supervisor/employee, etc). Just because you don't know it happens doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
  And it's only not serious until you've personally witnessed heterophobic comments from fanfiction fans on social media. Then you'll start to see these noncanonical shipfics for the reflection of a societal problem that it is. You could take your statement of "brokeback mountain is canonically about gay people, so the fics being about gay people makes sense" and just turn it around to "XYZ movie is canonically about straight people so the fics being about straight people make sense" but the formula seems to be that if there are two attractive males on screen at any point, a pairing between them will automatically become irrationally popular even if it makes literally no sense. I'm just pointing out the disparity with this and how heterophobia is a conclusion one could easily draw from this disparity.
  
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2. 1. A_J_F1306 Mon 17 Nov 2025 01:26AM UTC
    
    What they mean is that if you needed to make a point about people making everything “Gay” in fandom spaces/fan fiction spaces then choose a pairing that is a popular HEADCANNON. I could maybe understand if you said something about Steddie in stranger things, Jegulus in the Marauders, anything else, but you chose to use an example of a LGBTQIA+ movie. It’s not like people are complaining about you using a ship that is just a popular head cannon, no we are mad that you are using a movie that was created to let gay people have expression in media, and you are trying to use it to preach about people being “heteraphobes”. I understand that there is both ways for things like racism, but homophobia is NOT one of the things you can talk about having two sides. You need to be a minority to be oppressed, and straight and cis people are NOT the minority in this case. Yes fandom spaces primarily use queer relationships for this like fic, but that is due to the fact that the LGBTQIA+ community has much much less main stream media to consume. Brokeback was revolutionary for people in the queer community, it being one of the first big queer pieces of media. Did you know that gay marriage wasn’t even legalized in the U.S when it came out? If you ever think of doing something like this again, do it with something that isn’t a movie about 2 clearly gay men, and unlike the LGBTQIA+ Community who can bring hour long videos, multi page long essays, and clear reasons for non-cannon couples to be real, you use two men who didn’t love their wives to bring your “concern” about “heterophobia” to light,
    
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crying_corroded_nails Fri 29 Dec 2023 07:04AM UTC

Hi there! Like the previous commenter Anna said, although there are a large amount of fandoms out there that create male-loving-male ships with no canonical proof or character interaction, using this movie in particular to make your point feels very disrespectful and homophobic, even though I genuinely don't think you meant to do this. If you'll remember, not only is this a movie that is about a gay romance, it is a tragedy. Jack Twist is beaten *to death* for the supposed crime of loving the same gender in the 70s. This isn't a romantic comedy or a teenage coming-to-age. This is about the horrific life that many real people had to endure. Real people were hate crimed and murdered and Brokeback is trying to tell this story. You are trying to point out a supposed "double standard" but you are doing it in a very ignorant way. That is why your cries of 'heterophobia' ring so empty. You are trying to tell people that you are oppressed and you are using an *actual* story of oppression to do it. If straight people's biggest problems are the fact that sometimes it feels like gay people get more space in fandoms, doesn't that feel sorta-like chump change comparatively?
Anna is also right when they say that straight people cannot be oppressed (as well as the other minorities they mention) because oppression is a historical systematical issue, and straight people have not ever been the ones who have had their rights taken away. Straight was, and still is, the default. (Even if online spaces have become a safe space for queer people to gather and write silly fanfictions about their favorite characters.) I'm sorry if you feel like an outsider in fanfic spaces, or if some random mlm fanfic writers have treated you wrongly for thinking some characters are straight, but the second you step outside of the internet you can live your life without a second of hesitation, and love who you love without being in danger. That is not what oppression is (or your mystical concept of 'heterophobia'. Lgbt people trying to carve out a space that is even a little similar to the overwhelming community of straightness does not mean that gay people need to be "taught a lesson" or something.
And, atleast in my experience as a gay man myself, the reason why characters are sometimes seen as gay by the gay community is because gay characters are still so far in between in media, especially in shows that are aimed towards straight people. (we are expected to be shitting rainbows when we get a token gay character who has no personality except being digestible to straight people) So is it really that ridiculous to take characters that are "straight" (although this entire argument in itself seems to be excluding the existence of bisexuality altogether. It IS possible that some characters can date men AND women, y'know?) and wonder what these strong personalities could look like if they got together? *Fan* fiction writers are fans of shows writing things that make them happy, and who cares if it makes sense or not? I've seen crossover fics of serious, dark shows with ALAN AND THE CHIPMUNKS. Serious storytelling isn't the goal of everyone here, and neither should it be. That's why ao3 has such a wonderful tagging system.
I do understand that you are also doing this unseriously. But maybe you could be focusing on things more productive to your health than trying to argue that some nonsensical ships are going to personally end straightness as we know it. It won't. I promise.
Also, as a heads up, because I know that sometimes being raised on anime/manga/Japanese media, especially when it comes to queerness, can lead to this misunderstanding. Yaoi is not an interchangeable term for any gay relationship. Yaoi is a very specific form of Japanese media (in the truest meaning of the word, gay porn) that is marketed towards straight women that fetisize gay men. Brokeback mountain is so far from yaoi and calling it that feels very silly. Those are gay men in a man-loving-man relationship (also known as a mlm relationship, which is a more perferred mode of address by most of everyone) and the people that enjoy the movie and write fanfiction about it would not be a "yaoi fandom". Calling any ol' gay relationship yaoi feels extremely fetish-y to me (although I don't believe that was your intention) gay men most definitely exist in real life and have complex, loving, in-depth relationships that stretch beyond us fucking (which is what the term implies).

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1. lemnlime Fri 29 Dec 2023 01:04PM UTC
  
  "You are trying to tell people that you are oppressed"
  Uh, where did I write that? As I said, just trying to make a point. Nothing more.
  "straight people cannot be oppressed (as well as the other minorities they mention) because oppression is a historical systematical issue, and straight people have not ever been the ones who have had their rights taken away"
  Try telling this to someone who has been oppressed by a minority group and see how quickly you get punched in the face. It absolutely does happen on at least a micro level (employer-employee, teacher-student, etc). Just because it only affects one or a small group of people doesn't make it any less discrimination. Better check those equal opportunity laws.
  "but the second you step outside of the internet you can live your life without a second of hesitation, and love who you love without being in danger"
  This is ignoring the fact that there are other things besides being gay that are controversial and can make you debate whether you want to stay "in the closet" about it or be open about it and deal with the occasional person's dirty look. For instance, there are still people prejudiced against women who have children out of wedlock.
  "the reason why characters are sometimes seen as gay by the gay community is because gay characters are still so far in between in media"
  I already thought this was true, but you're confirming that there is indeed a gay bias where people see what they want to see regardless of the surrounding facts/evidence. There's an "original work" fandom on AO3. Tons of these canon-denying M/M fics really belong there. There's no reason to take these characters I love and make them strangers to me when they could just make an original fic that was inspired by the fandom in question instead.
  "this entire argument in itself seems to be excluding the existence of bisexuality altogether"
  What are the odds that all of these M/M shipfics are a result of this same line of thinking, especially when the vast majority seem to pretend that the characters are just 100% gay and have never had a straight thought in their lives? And if this were really true, then you'd expect to see the same level of F/M ships in the gay fandoms which is obviously not the case.
  "I've seen crossover fics of serious, dark shows with ALAN AND THE CHIPMUNKS. Serious storytelling isn't the goal of everyone here"
  So I'm not allowed to criticize people who write nonsensical fics because other people do the same?
  And yes, I'm sure there's a better word I could have used than yaoi but it's at least colloquially used to just mean guy x guy relationships in the fandoms I frequent.
  
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lo (Guest) Sun 31 Dec 2023 07:20PM UTC

i'm sorry i can't get over the fact that you're using "yaoi" which is a term for japanese erotic m/m fiction, two describe two white men, at least "bl" would be more accurate.
you talk about fetishization when you're using the term that is heavily associated with fetishization, speaking to your experience with the genre of m/m fiction... along with the fact that you write wincest, i think you're the fetishizer here.

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1. jmadd Sun 31 Dec 2023 08:14PM UTC
  
  LOL, you clearly didn't read that fic. It was a trollfic. And I have zero respect for ppl who try to win arguments by resorting to semantics
  
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2. 1. finalgirlsyndrome Mon 01 Jan 2024 07:29PM UTC
    
    Good trolls write less
    
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kittanzer0 Mon 01 Jan 2024 05:49PM UTC

you don’t need to call it yaoi. you can use the word gay it’s ok i promise.

Last Edited Fri 05 Jan 2024 04:09PM UTC

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finalgirlsyndrome Mon 01 Jan 2024 07:28PM UTC

I know this person has an humiliation kink

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harurio Mon 01 Jan 2024 07:29PM UTC

lmao this is the funniest thing i've seen today, i really hope the author isn't undermining their self-proclaimed support of free speech by deleting comments they don't like 🥺

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Marvells Mon 01 Jan 2024 10:35PM UTC

Complaining about gay ships but having your most recent fic be a wincest is....interesting

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1. madbug Wed 24 Jan 2024 06:31AM UTC
  
  the fact that they deleted that fic and not this comment is making me lose it lmao
  
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2. 1. Anonymous (Guest) Wed 31 Jan 2024 05:16AM UTC
    
    AO3 administration removed it, not the author, and according to that blog thing the author put up, they're currently suspended.
    
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  2. 1. madbug Wed 31 Jan 2024 08:11AM UTC
      
      that's even funnier. I only looked at this fic bc they had left rude comments on something I wrote and I was going to be equally critical of their work, but the comments here already sure did that
      
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    2. 1. lemnlime Tue 13 Feb 2024 04:36PM UTC
        
        Translation: "I can't stand when people leave on point concrit on my fics so, being the petty person I am, I vindictively review bomb people who do that." Hey, here's a tip for ya: grow a spine.
        Oh, and these comments just serve to show just how nasty people can be on AO3 when they don't merely hit the back button on their browser and when the author actually doesn't just delete all the negative comments on their fics (as I could have easily done)
        
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Loki_is_on_crack Tue 02 Jan 2024 03:57AM UTC

I award you zero points, and I pray for God's mercy on your soul.
Jesus Christ, kids these days. Back when I was a child and dinosaurs walked the earth, you had to be clever, or at least engaging, to be a troll. They'll allow any old tom, dick, or harry to be a troll these days...!
Back in the day, I wrote about Jesus forgiving Judas... with His cock. I also wrote about Ben Affleck fucking the AFLAC duck. Hell, I got blocked by Chefclub because I wrote smutty fanfic about their animal mascots!
Still, I have hope for you. You're in the minor league, but you have potential. If you apply yourself, you could be a real troll. Please keep trying. I believe in you.

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tbhidontknow Tue 02 Jan 2024 11:00AM UTC

hey bro what the actual fuck

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auggiebbang Tue 02 Jan 2024 01:57PM UTC

to address your ending A/N:
the reason that non-canon m/m and f/f ships are popular in fandom is because fandom is a safe space for people who are 1) unable to safely express their sexuality offline, 2) discovering themselves/trying to learn what their preferences are, 3) having fun and enjoy the idea of certain dynamics, 4) seeing aspects of themselves in certain characters and writing scenarios where those aspects are realized and explored.
And for a long time, the internet was the only safe place any queer person could easily and accessibly read stories about queer or fan-queered characters. There are millions of canonical straight romances in our modern era that straight people have had the privilege to easily and safely consume for hundreds of years. Yes, ancient cultures had queer mythological characters, but the last several hundred years in the west at least have been very aggressively anti-queer and very heteronormative. The explosion of queer stories online is because in the last 20 years, and in fact more in the last 10, it has become not just “safe” but celebrated, like heteronormative writing has always been.
What are the consequences of the “heterophobia” that you describe? Are straight people being called slurs by their own parents? Getting kicked out when they come out as straight? Having to hide their heterosexuality from their grandparents so they can be invited to Sunday dinner? Worse things, like hate crimes and violence? Because the only consequences I can see from how you’ve described it are that people who ship a canon straight ship have less fandom content in comparison to non-het ships—despite also having the victory of their ship being canon or at least legitimized by the narrative.
Trying to wave around the word “heterophobia” as if it carries any weight at all with homophobia, something that carries with it genuine terror and violence and even in 2024 impacts people’s real, personal, non-fictitious, non-fandom lives, is really gross.
Signed, an asexual person who cannot come out to her queerphobic conservative parents or show them any of her queer writing because I will get kicked out.
Edited to add: Yeah this is probably a troll post but in case it’s not, I’m keeping this up. I’d rather look silly taking a troll post seriously than ignore it.

Last Edited Tue 02 Jan 2024 02:04PM UTC

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1. Em (Guest) Thu 04 Jan 2024 05:13AM UTC
  
  Their Reddit (same username) suggests that this is a genuine homophobic fossil from 2002. Wild!
  They have one comment where they refuse to believe there’s a difference between & and / tags.
  
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2. 1. lemnlime Thu 04 Jan 2024 03:35PM UTC
    
    You really think that's me? I bet you also think there's no one else who shares YOUR (user) name, Em (you must have put so much thought into that one)
    
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Saimaav Tue 02 Jan 2024 04:21PM UTC

Ah yes the yaoi fandom. Which has nothing to do with japanese media. Truly the yaoi staple.

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Zhenia Tue 02 Jan 2024 06:50PM UTC

I knew this was going to be gold when I saw the screenshots on Tumblr. I knew.

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1. lemnlime Tue 02 Jan 2024 10:38PM UTC
  
  Why am I not surprised that people would rather talk shit about me/my fic behind my back on social media instead of here? It's almost like you guys are scared that I'll be able to school you on this topic or something...
  And I sure hope they aren't sharing more than what would be considered fair use of anything I wrote as that would be copyright infringement!
  
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2. 1. H (Guest) Wed 03 Jan 2024 04:37AM UTC
    
    You do realize this wouldn't be covered under copyright law, right? You used characters from a copyrighted story (Brokeback Mountain), so you can't make any claims about people stealing your "copyright" when it was never yours to begin with. Fanfiction has always been in a tenuous legal space, but you'd be laughed out of a courtroom if your tried to claim copyright over a story with characters that aren't even yours.
    
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  2. 1. lemnlime Wed 03 Jan 2024 05:45AM UTC
      
      Copyright law varies everywhere, but where I live, I own copyright to a fic I make (it literally just means the right to copy) even if it uses elements from another copyrighted work. The legality of selling fanfics without the IP holder's permission is another thing entirely and is likely to be considered illegal copyright infringement. And AO3 clearly thinks reposting even just part of someone else's fanfic is copyright infringement even if it meets the fair use test because they deleted one of my fics that sampled from another fanfic. I wrote all about that, too: https://freespeechhub.blogspot.com
      
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  3. Nomad (Guest) Wed 03 Jan 2024 10:09PM UTC
    
    To be fair the main reaction to the screenshot is just “this is a funny screenshot”
    I’m not denying that surely, some people are getting mad over nothing, but the main reaction it’s getting is mild amusement.
    
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earnest (Guest) Tue 02 Jan 2024 07:53PM UTC

I understand where you're coming from and I've often been frustrated myself with the prolificness of M/M in fandom, but why is "heterophobia" your assumption, when F/F is equally if not more rare than F/M in most fandoms? In my opinion it's not heterophobia but a disinterest in female characters and relationships.

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1. lemnlime Tue 02 Jan 2024 08:02PM UTC
  
  Yep, you're right. So I guess I should've tacked on "homophobia of F/F 'ships" too. I'm sure there's a better term for it though XD
  
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2. 1. on_the_wing Tue 02 Jan 2024 11:17PM UTC
    
    You could call it internalized misogyny if you want to get spicy, although there are just not a lot of female characters in many of these fandoms. That is actually one of the defining characteristics of yaoi (actual yaoi, not fictional m/m relationships in general) according to Wikipedia: homosocial environments and a lack of major female characters.
    Another influence: it has been observed as far back as the 80s that many women find it painful to imagine sexual scenarios as themselves or even with female characters involved, because it reminds us of bad sexual experiences we've had or bad feelings/worries we have about our own bodies, and that it's therefore easier to imagine two men together.
    I know what you mean by "heterophobia," but I think you and most of the commenters are probably talking about two different issues while arguing about it. They're talking about structural discrimination on a societal level, and yes, there is no "heterophobia" of that type. Whereas you seem to be talking about the dismissive and hostile cultural attitudes that some people take toward heterosexuality--for example, assuming that straights are always boring or unenlightened or conservative or uncool, or assuming that m/m pairings in fanfic are somehow more morally pure or enlightened than f/m pairings--and that certainly exists.
    
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  2. 1. lemnlime Wed 03 Jan 2024 01:20AM UTC
      
      Yes, they're always so quick to argue that, because some LGBTQ have been/are being/will be persecuted for being LGBTQ, these noncanonical fics are beautiful and how dare I belittle them. Just imagine if people of African descent tried to win every argument by saying "we've historically been persecuted and continue to be persecuted, therefore, you must always agree with us and accept everything we do". It's clearly nonsense.
      Also, from your other post, I didn't know Annie Proulx had said that. That's interesting. Sounds like she and I would get along...
      
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on_the_wing Tue 02 Jan 2024 10:42PM UTC

Not here to flame although I did come here from the tumblr post and I understand why people are getting upset or amused. I actually found it to be an interesting take in contrast to the prevailing assumption at the time (and this time apparently) which is that if you have a Forbidden Pants Feeling you must immediately drop your whole life and disrupt your family in order to fulfill it....and that not doing so is somehow a rejection or a denial of those feelings. It sounded like the guys were just being practical and saying yeah, we want to be together but there is no real structural possibility of that in our current society, plus we are hurting our families by cheating, so let's just cut our losses and save what we can. Which I guess would not have gotten across the original message of the destructive effects of homophobia and heterosexism, but it doesn't have to, because it's a fanfic.
I just looked up the original story on Wikipedia and interestingly, it quotes Annie Proulx as saying she wished she'd never written it because men send her so many "fix-it" fics about it:
'They constantly send ghastly manuscripts and pornish rewrites of the story to me, expecting me to reply with praise and applause for "fixing" the story. They certainly don't get the message that if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.[18]'
So it sounds like your message is essentially...canon?

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Mr_Prerogative Tue 02 Jan 2024 11:19PM UTC

I don't mind the idea of making them treat their wives better. I feel bad for the wives too. However I was expecting an actual love story. I know you made it clear in the tags and your author's notes that you were just pushing an agenda but that doesn't mean that I don't have a right to be disappointed with this fic. It might as well be a mlm one considering that none of the women talk.

Last Edited Tue 02 Jan 2024 11:22PM UTC

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1. lemnlime Wed 03 Jan 2024 01:10AM UTC
  
  I think I got the point across enough without needing to add dialog or additional scenes. Sure, I could have added more, but like I said in the summary, I didn't expect this fic would garner much interest because it goes too against the grain.
  
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2. 1. Mr_Prerogative Wed 03 Jan 2024 01:23AM UTC
    
    I think you should change the tags. In my opinion you should swap this to Gen, put platonic Ennis and Jack as the main relationship, and then put the two other relationships as background ships.
    
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hetero-hero42069 (Guest) Wed 03 Jan 2024 02:28AM UTC

Thank you for finally saying something! I’ve been so upset with this sort of thing for years. I have some really good content for you to look at! Give it a read and see if you agree — I really think you will, based on your work. Please give them both a proper look through - unfortunately, as you know, you have to tag things weirdly to avoid heterophobia. I really hope these make you think!
https://archiveofourown.org/series/3894385
https://archiveofourown.org/works/52403053

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1. Cali (Guest) Thu 04 Jan 2024 05:15AM UTC
  
  These really made me think. Thanks for sharing! Hopefully they change some minds and hearts 🧡
  
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2. CM Punk (Guest) Fri 05 Jan 2024 06:30AM UTC
  
  Let's not and say we did, alright?
  
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3. 1. EmpressUmbreon Sun 07 Apr 2024 10:47PM UTC
    
    Hear hear.
    
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