Portuguese in the AO3

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2015-07-26 21:40:27 UTC

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Until recently, if you were browsing or posting works in Brazilian Portuguese or European Portuguese, your only option was a generic "Portuguese" language. Answering several user requests, and after consultation with OTW Translation's Brazilian and European Portuguese teams, we have decided to change this setup.

The "Portuguese" language has been split into two languages for posting to the AO3:

European Portuguese, labelled "Português europeu"
Brazilian Portuguese, labelled "Português brasileiro"

To minimize the tidying-up work, both Translation teams have done their best to identify existing works in the previous "Portuguese" tag that belong to either language. During the migration, Accessibility, Design & Technology coders moved works according to this classification. If you have previously posted a work in Portuguese, please double-check that it's properly classified. You can change your work's language by selecting the "Edit" button at the top of the work page and choosing the correct language in the "Choose a language" dropdown menu.

We hope this will increase the site's usability for our Portuguese-speaking users. Our translation teams are also hard at work on the Brazilian Portuguese AO3 FAQs and the European Portuguese AO3 FAQs. Feel free to submit Support and Abuse tickets in either language, or just drop us a line saying hi!

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mols Mon 27 Jul 2015 07:39AM UTC

That's nice ^^

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RyuichiBunny Mon 27 Jul 2015 01:19PM UTC

be being portuguese , agree with this. Like , I want to read a European Portuguese story , and I just find brazilian ones. Wich is kind of a nerve reck.

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Trahern Mon 27 Jul 2015 08:50PM UTC

Now if only there was an online translator that knew the difference...

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HChnD Mon 27 Jul 2015 10:24PM UTC

To be honest, I only find it nice because you can find fics from an specific place but separating it sounds very lame since it's still the same language? You don't separate British English from American English, for example. No one says "It's so upsetting to read a fanfiction and see "colour" written!!! Wtf!!! It's without the u!!! I want fics from America hurr durr *insert cusses/dumb rage here*", so why do the same with Portuguese? The issue is pretty much the same. (ação/acção, usage of the word rapariga and etc). There are different slangs and different spelling/accent etc from of course, but still a same language that, no matter where you're from, you'll understand being a native or learning one of the variants. Besides, there aren't only American and European Portuguese, just like English. I might be taking this too personally but it seems like people who want distinction between these variants wants to erase the little bit of similarity we have, regardless the side you are from? It's the same language.

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1. krautrock Tue 28 Jul 2015 12:09AM UTC
  
  As a native european portuguese speaker I understand that you might think that the two forms don't merit distinction, but the differences are deeper than spelling or a couple of different slang words, the use of você instead of tu, more obscure or modern slang and sentence construction can throw people off. It's not lame at all to care about someone's potential enjoyment of a written work, it's based on the way it reads and how comfortable it feels, not on cultural matters. For example, back in 2007 it was SUPER hard to find fanfics written by portuguese people and almost all of my friends wished there was a way to find stuff written in the way we speak, because that's what feels natural and immersive.
  
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2. 1. HChnD Fri 31 Jul 2015 02:04PM UTC
    
    As a Brazilian I honestly don't understand what you understand because I'm giving my opinion as someone from inside? But I guess my comment was too vague to notice about it, so anyway.
    I started the original comment saying that the change is nice when you're looking for fanfics from an specific country, and I do understand your pain a bit (only a bit because I have the feeling Brazilians write more than you Portuguese so it's easier to find br fics, specially because we have some Brazilian sites dedicated to fics). When I said it was lame I meant that people want the languages to be seen as different things like it was different idioms, not that it's lame to want to find fics in your "variant" language. (Variant is not the right word but I can't think of a better one atm)
    I never consider the use of tu a huge difference because even if we rarely use it here, at school when we're learning the persons I/you/he&she we learn tu as the second person and never touches você (even if we put the verb as if it was the third person but yeah); there are many people from one country that visit the other and write blogs about the differences, slangs included (pretty much like it happens to the different English, I see tons of posts in many medias explaining some slangs). I think the only grand thing is the "br: estou andando"/"eu: estou a andar", honestly talking.
    
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  2. 1. onironauta Sun 09 Aug 2015 06:56PM UTC
      
      (Also, some brazilian states actually use second person instead of "você", like Pará does, right? And correctly, even, with the right verb forms instead of the chimaera of third/second forms. I understand what you mean. But I digress.)
      
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3. PriscaMachado Tue 28 Jul 2015 03:53AM UTC
  
  The differences between European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese by far surpass the differences between British and American English. If that weren't so there wouldn't be such different translations of the same book for both languages. These differences have become so irreconcilable that the treaty that was attempted to unify the language fell through. An inconceivable reform of the language was attempted and it was rejected so powerfully by both nations it became technically impossible and both governments practically gave up to implement it.
  
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4. 1. HChnD Fri 31 Jul 2015 02:22PM UTC
    
    I always thought that having two translations was because the book arrived from the original text to the country it would be translated. Anyway, I don't see any country looking at the other and deciding to use their translation instead, plus it'd be more expensive because it would pass to two countries plus it'd have already translation. But I really know nothing about translation of books and how it works so that's all just, I don't know, a theory I have about the subject.
    However when the book comes from Portugal we don't "retranslate" it. We might adapt it with the differences like acção and ação but we don't make it more br-pt-like and less eu-pt-like. (Well, actually about this I'm not entirely sure because there might be two versions of the book, one with less adaption than the other for some find it easier to read and I always got the one closer to the original, I'm not sure.)
    This is so upsetting, the last part of your comment. I have the feeling the majority of both countries doesn't want any more connection with the other, or that trying to unify will sound as another domination and they don't want to "give up" of their version or something like that. It makes me sad because it's one of the few things similar in both places and I have the feeling people want to pretend nothing happened or whatever. That makes me mad at myself because it's goddamn silly to be s heated about it.
    ps: I don't know if it was clear enough but I'm from Brazil, it seems people are thinking I'm not because I didn't clearly specify it.
    
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  2. 1. PriscaMachado Fri 31 Jul 2015 03:16PM UTC
      
      I didn't mean that the countries use translations from other countries. I meant that, while quite obviously different translations exist for each country, hey are enourmously different in language content. As a brazilian you would be quite lost if you had to read a portuguese translation.
      The treaty fell through because language is a huge feature of culture, and rarely ever you're going to see a people give up so easily of their culture. There's nothing wrong with that.
      
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5. j520j Tue 28 Jul 2015 07:58PM UTC
  
  No, buddy. European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese are almost two diferent idioms. MUCH more than American and European English. It's not only some letters in the middle of the words or slangs, they (yes, "they", I'm brazillian) do not combine certain verbs, they don't have gerund and a lot of their vocabulary is from a very old Portuguese lexic that we don't use in Brazil for at least 200 years.
  A brazilian hardly can understand a portuguese if he doesn't speak VERY slowly.
  
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6. 1. HChnD Fri 31 Jul 2015 02:13PM UTC
    
    It's not true a Brazilian cannot understand Portuguese. It's a relative thing, it differs from the person. My brother when he had less than 11 years old watched 4 or 5 Portuguese gamers and many of them spoke really fast (specially in horror games) and he never had an issue to understand them. I, being a Brazilian too, never had an issue understanding it either, and I had many friends who watched these guys too and never complained. HOWEVER, there are Brazilians that can hardly understand another Brazilian from a different state (for example, someone from the Southeast and another from the North). Do not generalize.
    It's not almost two different idioms because you do not need to learn Eu-PT to speak to an European. If you go to Europe you'll manage to read signalization, speak to people to ask for directions, even have a friendly conversation and it will be ok (of course there will be some misunderstandings but that's normal, the places stopped being close for, as you said, 200 years it's obvious their Pt would improve differently than ours, but that doesn't make it another language. Have you ever see a school to make you learn their Portuguese around here?)
    
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  2. 1. bulbasaurlife Fri 31 Jul 2015 10:03PM UTC
      
      Well, regardless, I find it very annoying when I start reading a fic and it turns out to be Eu-PT. I have to backclick, it's just distracting and throws me off. So I'm glad for the change. Don't see why it's relevant if people see it as two languages or not. Who cares?
      
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7. OTW_Translation (Official) Sat 01 Aug 2015 03:47AM UTC
  
  Hi, bERUkUN,
  Thank you for your feedback! OTW Translation's Brazilian and European Portuguese language teams recommended the language split for several reasons.
  As translation teams and native speakers of both languages, we certainly feel that European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese are distinct enough and have significant differences. Mutual intelligibility is not the only criterion that should be taken into account. (After all, speakers of many Romance languages can mostly understand each other, which doesn't make them any less unique.) When you're writing or translating something, there's a lot you need to consider in order to try to convey the message as best as you can in that language, such as cultural context, tone, vocabulary, register and flow. From our perspective as translators, we can't even imagine how hard it would be to even attempt a translation that would reconcile European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese in a single text, so no—trust us, they're very, very different.
  The main practical problem in our previous scenario is that Brazilian Portuguese fanworks on the Archive outnumber European Portuguese fanworks by a very large margin. Therefore, users searching for European Portuguese content were sad and disappointed that they had no way of locating works in their language. They have no way of finding out whether there are stories written in a way that sound natural to them: dialogue that doesn't sound off to their ears, that use expressions and slang that they recognise—hell, that use swearwords in a way that feels right. Several websites don't create separate spaces for Brazilian and European Portuguese, which can be a recurring issue especially for many speakers of the latter. If you have a chat with them, they may tell you all the many ways in which this is an inconvenience.
  The Archive of Our Own and its parent organization, the Organization for Transformative Works, have a policy of maximum inclusiveness and diversity. This means different things in different contexts: here, after several users' requests, it became clear that respecting diversity meant creating a space for European Portuguese fandom, where European Portuguese speakers feel welcome to post and access works directly in their language, and where they can see that there are others doing the same. Likewise, Brazilian fans should have a space of their own to share and create fanworks. People who wish to access works in either language, like you, are certainly welcome to filter or search works accordingly, of course!
  Best,
  Priscilla
  Brazilian Portuguese team
  Sofia
  European Portuguese team
  OTW Translation
  
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8. 1. Pax_2735 Sun 02 Aug 2015 12:31AM UTC
    
    Well, as a native speaker of the language, all I can say is thank you! Even though (I think) we can understand each other perfectly, it's kinda off-putting to start reading a story and then realizing it just doesn't feel right. This way, we know exactly what we're getting. Obrigada meninas! :-)
    
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Paula Sousa (Guest) Tue 28 Jul 2015 01:28PM UTC

This is really cool. It can look like it's all the same, but we, native speakers of portugues, being european or brazilian, know that it's pretty different. This is really cool, thanks.

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StarlightAlien Tue 28 Jul 2015 04:25PM UTC

This is really helpful, thanks!

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MadameTourvel Tue 28 Jul 2015 07:17PM UTC

I wish the same distinction was possible for European Spanish and Latin American Spanish. They are very different.

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1. hl (hele) Tue 28 Jul 2015 07:50PM UTC
  
  Speaking as a Spanish-speaking fan, that's not exactly the most relevant difference I could find,myself. ("Latinoamerican" Spanish is not one thing -- it varies wildly between countries.)
  
  Last Edited Tue 28 Jul 2015 07:51PM UTC
  
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j520j Tue 28 Jul 2015 07:51PM UTC

Maravilha! :D

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Hannabr Wed 29 Jul 2015 12:46AM UTC

Nossa, que bom!!!

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Cheryl (Guest) Thu 30 Jul 2015 01:12AM UTC

Was this why Ao3 was down for a while previously?

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Account Deleted Thu 30 Jul 2015 11:24PM UTC

this is amazing news! the two languages are indeed very different, and there are a lot false cognates too, which can be frustrating. it's especially important in a platform that hosts fanfiction, because in fan works, language use can be a lot more liberal and loose/informal, which means these works often contain slang and turns of phrase that are specific to each of the two countries. it's not at all like American and British english, and the distinction runs a lot deeper than just spelling and a few different words. as a native portuguese speaker myself, i love this decision a lot!

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bibliomorgan Fri 31 Jul 2015 06:04PM UTC

Thank you so much gals!

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FreyBlue Fri 31 Jul 2015 07:20PM UTC

I just love this place so much <3 Love you all <3A<3

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andrean182 Sat 01 Aug 2015 07:49AM UTC

What's so different about those languages? They're still Portuguese, right?
English in this site doesn't split to become American English and British English.

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1. RyuichiBunny Tue 04 Aug 2015 05:18PM UTC
  
  There is a huge difference between Portuguese and Brazillian . It´s all Portuguese , but it´s like talking gibberish. Cause tehre are so many things that mean one thing , and then we understand another thing. It´s super annoying and the simple differences are that in both british and american you say : I love you. (for example)
  But...
  Portuguese: Eu amo-te
  Brazillian: Eu te amo /eu amo voce
  It´s super annoying , and most of the portuguese people don´t understand half of Brazillian .
  It´s just different. SOOOOO DIFFERENT
  
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2. 1. sweetcheeks Fri 07 Aug 2015 06:43PM UTC
    
    True! I don't understand half of what you guys say sometimes. No offense, It's just that to us, brazilians, you portugueses talk really fast, and our portuguese is different in so many ways...
    
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  2. 1. RyuichiBunny Fri 07 Aug 2015 08:00PM UTC
      
      XD English talk to fast to Americans as well hahahah. I actually understand a lot of Brasillian it's just different XD
      
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3. echolalia (cleanbreak) Wed 05 Aug 2015 09:11PM UTC
  
  yeah, as Zueira said, there are for example some European Portuguese words that for brazillians are like really offending to say, even if it means -in portuguese- something really fool.
  An example:
  Portuguese: Caralho = peace of wood
  Brazillian: Caralho = offense. It's like saying 'shit'. Translating it would mean 'dick'.
  This without counting all of the grammar rules, the brazillian it's reaaaaaaaally harder to learn. That's why we need to split :)
  
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4. andrean182 Thu 06 Aug 2015 02:06AM UTC
  
  Maybe they should split Portuguese onto 2 different languages, Português and Brasileiro, if the 2 dialects are no longer have the mutual intelligibility. Just like the case of Nedelands and Afrikaans.
  
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thenevengers Sun 02 Aug 2015 02:39PM UTC

Thank you for this.

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1. RyuichiBunny Tue 04 Aug 2015 05:20PM UTC
  
  XD I reacted the same way . *seeing a light* It´s like a gift from god. WTF XD
  
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Doc Yewll (Guest) Wed 05 Aug 2015 03:09PM UTC

Muito bom.

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mishfortunes Wed 05 Aug 2015 06:01PM UTC

Thakn you so much :D

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echolalia (cleanbreak) Wed 05 Aug 2015 09:05PM UTC

Ooh, that will be awesome!

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redzakku Wed 05 Aug 2015 11:36PM UTC

Thank you!

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ahyeah Thu 06 Aug 2015 08:03AM UTC

Thank you!

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mols Mon 27 Jul 2015 07:39AM UTC

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RyuichiBunny Mon 27 Jul 2015 01:19PM UTC

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Trahern Mon 27 Jul 2015 08:50PM UTC

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HChnD Mon 27 Jul 2015 10:24PM UTC

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krautrock Tue 28 Jul 2015 12:09AM UTC

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HChnD Fri 31 Jul 2015 02:04PM UTC

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onironauta Sun 09 Aug 2015 06:56PM UTC

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PriscaMachado Tue 28 Jul 2015 03:53AM UTC

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HChnD Fri 31 Jul 2015 02:22PM UTC

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PriscaMachado Fri 31 Jul 2015 03:16PM UTC

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j520j Tue 28 Jul 2015 07:58PM UTC

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HChnD Fri 31 Jul 2015 02:13PM UTC

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bulbasaurlife Fri 31 Jul 2015 10:03PM UTC

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OTW_Translation (Official) Sat 01 Aug 2015 03:47AM UTC

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Pax_2735 Sun 02 Aug 2015 12:31AM UTC

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Paula Sousa (Guest) Tue 28 Jul 2015 01:28PM UTC

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StarlightAlien Tue 28 Jul 2015 04:25PM UTC

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MadameTourvel Tue 28 Jul 2015 07:17PM UTC

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hl (hele) Tue 28 Jul 2015 07:50PM UTC

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j520j Tue 28 Jul 2015 07:51PM UTC

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Hannabr Wed 29 Jul 2015 12:46AM UTC

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bibliomorgan Fri 31 Jul 2015 06:04PM UTC

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andrean182 Sat 01 Aug 2015 07:49AM UTC

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RyuichiBunny Tue 04 Aug 2015 05:18PM UTC

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sweetcheeks Fri 07 Aug 2015 06:43PM UTC

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echolalia (cleanbreak) Wed 05 Aug 2015 09:11PM UTC

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thenevengers Sun 02 Aug 2015 02:39PM UTC

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echolalia (cleanbreak) Wed 05 Aug 2015 09:05PM UTC

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redzakku Wed 05 Aug 2015 11:36PM UTC

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