Upcoming limit on tags per work

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2021-08-24 21:12:26 UTC

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In the coming days, we'll be rolling out a code change that limits the total number of fandom, character, relationship, and additional tags that can be added to a work. This limit of 75 tags will apply to both new and existing works, but no tags will be automatically removed from existing works.

Why place a limit on tags?

Having a limit on tags will:

help keep work blurbs to a reasonable length, improving the experience of navigating work listings, and
encourage creators to tag for the most important elements of their works, improving the quality of search results.

Why 75 tags?

We looked at all the works on the Archive and determined that:

the average number of tags per work is 17,
the most common number of tags per work is 11, and
less than 0.5% of works have more than 75 tags.

A limit of 75 total fandom, character, relationship, and additional tags per work will provide the vast majority of creators with enough space to describe the content of their works while also keeping work blurbs to a manageable size.

Why don't ratings, categories, and warnings count toward the limit?

Ratings, categories, and warnings already have limits of their own. A work can only have one rating, and the number of categories and warnings a work can have is limited by the number of options provided on the posting form.

What should I do if I notice someone's work has more than 75 total fandom, character, relationship, and additional tags?

Nothing! Works that exceed the tag limit do not violate the Terms of Service and should not be reported to the Policy & Abuse team or the Support team.

What happens to previously posted works with more than 75 total fandom, character, relationship, and additional tags?

Nothing! The work will keep all of its tags.

However, if the work creator wants to edit the work or add a chapter, they will have to remove some of their fandom, character, relationship, and/or additional tags before they can save their changes. (An error message will tell the creator exactly how many tags must be removed.)

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thenewbuzwuzz Wed 25 Aug 2021 05:28AM UTC

Sounds great! Thank you!

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SuddenlySullen Wed 25 Aug 2021 05:34AM UTC

So glad this is finally happening, though I do wish it would be applying retroactively since there are some works right now that absolutely make it impossible to browse any tag that shares a tag with them, most especially for people using screen readers or other accessibility devices.

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1. Elf (Elf_Herself) Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:16AM UTC
  
  There are some tools that may help with that!
  Shortening long tag list skin: https://archiveofourown.org/skins/3756
  How to: Block fanfics/tags/users & Hide too-long tag fields
  
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2. Harlow (Damien) Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:20AM UTC
  
  Not to put too fine of a point on it, but since there's fics imported from elsewhere and also people who've left AO3 by choice or because they're sick, no longer able to access the internet or even dead, it'd require volunteers to prune someone's tags and that would create so much drama around it since people are already convinced that they are being personally targetted.
  That said, I'm a screen reader user and scrolling by numbered heading gets me past all the tags pretty easy. If you know the number of each heading level per fic, it's pretty fast to go from fic to fic, even with tons of tags. It's muscle memory at this point for me.
  
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3. DarkJediQueen Wed 25 Aug 2021 02:17PM UTC
  
  I wish that as well but it's going to be a lot of work on the part of the volunteers to get that done. I know of many authors who no longer post on AO3 but left their old works up but don't even access the email for it. Then there are the orphaned fics that the author literally has no access to anymore. And since warning tags on some works were added as they were written, that doesn't mean that it can just be chopped off at the 75 tag mark for many of those fics.
  I can understand why AO3 doesn't want to make the effort to go back through all of the fics that the authors don't update themselves. It would be a look of work on the volunteers when there is already a shortage.
  
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4. DragonSoulDreams Tue 31 Aug 2021 08:23PM UTC
  
  Maybe they could add a checkbox either in search or in user preferences to just not show any thing with >75 tags? They'd still be there, you'd just never see them again. No collapsing or such that doesn't really work for screen readers, just exclude them from all searches.
  
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mimsical Wed 25 Aug 2021 05:35AM UTC

good

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Account Deleted Wed 25 Aug 2021 05:39AM UTC

took long enough.

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Ser_Parapluie Wed 25 Aug 2021 05:49AM UTC

This is greatly appreciated, thank you!

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sebfish Wed 25 Aug 2021 05:51AM UTC

Thank you for this, this is a much-needed change. As a reader there's definitely a point at which I don't bother to read the tags when there's too many, they can be helpful when it comes to finding fics but in general I think fics with a lot of tags are over-tagging and being more concise isn't a bad thing. As a writer I try to keep my tags concise and focus on what people might be looking for or anything that might need a warning, but at some point it's better to let the story speak for itself.

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linokandi Wed 25 Aug 2021 05:58AM UTC

sexy times with wangxian traumatized a whole group and i’m so glad we’re in the healing process

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PaigieMonster Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:16AM UTC

As the co-writer of a multi-chapter story, 18 to be precise, I have to say I am firmly against this measure. Each and every tag that we have on our story is there for a reason. The story covers a multitude of topics involving an entire cast of roughly 30. I don’t feel that there is any way that we could cut more than a few of the tags we have at the most.
I understand wanting to implement a measure to prevent abuses to the tagging system, but this proposed change will serve largely to adversely affect authors of longer works.
Additionally, I don’t feel as a reader that this will make the platform any more accessible. I have very specific interests within a small number of fandoms and I already have some difficulty locating works that I enjoy.

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1. Elf (Elf_Herself) Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:37AM UTC
  
  You won't have to edit completed stories to bring them under the new limit; it will only apply to works being written/edited going forward.
  I've been looking at a lot of works that have more than 75 tags, and most of them could easy be brought under the limit without losing information. Most people with lots of tags overtag a bit - not meaning "they tag for too many things" but "they don't realize that some tags are already included in others." If you tag for "Midoriya & Bakugou" in relationships, you don't need to tag for them separately; the fic will already show up in searches for the individual characters. If you tag for "canon-typical violence," you don't also need to tag for "violence," and so on.
  For me as a reader, I prefer if tags are limited to the focus points of the story. I don't want every friendship tagged, because when I search for a friend pair, I want to find stories that are about that friendship, not stories where it exists in the background, or as a one-chapter spotlight in an epic-length fic. But that's a personal preference, and some authors and readers would rather each was tagged. If you run out of tags in the future and can't use things like "Ensemble Cast Friendships," you may need to add extras in the author's notes instead of the tag fields that are searchable.
  
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2. 1. PaigieMonster Wed 25 Aug 2021 07:38AM UTC
    
    As a writer earlier mentioned, I just came here to make myself heard. I appreciate your right to express yourself, but I strongly disagree with you. But as I wish to avoid an unproductive, petty argument, I’m not going to engage any further. Especially since you seem to have opinions for everyone.
    
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3. Elf (Elf_Herself) Wed 25 Aug 2021 08:15AM UTC
  
  Found out I was mistaken - you do need to tag for characters as well as relationships to show up in searches. This is because characters & relationships are in different fields; the searches don't cross-connect. Sorry about the mistake.
  
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4. pindo Wed 25 Aug 2021 01:41PM UTC
  
  You could, for example, cull down all those "X Character" and "Character is X" tags very, very easily.
  
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5. Yellow_the_Writer Sat 28 Aug 2021 11:03PM UTC
  
  Finally, someone with the same mindset!
  
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BatFan88 Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:23AM UTC

Hi!
Thank you very much for putting a limit on Tags. It's a great idea to take this step because too many stories have way, way too many Tags. Tags that culminate in practically telling the stories before readers actually read said stories. Also, some writers need to curtail tags because of redundancy. An example could be: Top Jane Doe/Bottom John Blow, Top Jane, Bottom John, Jane on top, John on bottom, etc. I'm not kidding... I've seen similar tagging before, and it's ridiculous. And, at times, there are far too many Tags which can bore a reader or lead a reader to skip them and end up viewing something in a story that bothers them.
Thanks for creating and maintaing this amazing fanfiction site, AO3 staff and board members. Take care and stay safe and sane during these crazy and turbulent times.
Sincerely,
BatFan88

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1. Elf (Elf_Herself) Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:26AM UTC
  
  A lot of the unnecessary duplicates are from people coming from sites like Tumblr and Twitter that don't do anything with the tags, so you have to tag them six different ways to catch whatever the reader is searching for. (We need better documentation on how tags work, so people understand that you don't need to tag alternate spellings or different orders of pairings.)
  But yeah, I'm also looking forward to less tag clutter. I'm much more likely to read a story if the visible tags are succinct and let me know what the focus is, instead of "every major character in this fandom is tagged. Does that mean this is a huge ensemble fic, or... a shippy fic with two characters and a swarm of a dozen in the background?"
  
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2. 1. BatFan88 Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:38AM UTC
    
    Truth, that!
    👍
    
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EvilRobotCat Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:23AM UTC

No more walls of tags! This makes me wish update posts had like buttons.

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(Previous comment deleted.)
1. midnightstreet Fri 27 Aug 2021 01:34AM UTC
  
  You might want to seriously reconsider using this quote in this situation; it's very inappropriate.
  
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2. 1. Raum Fri 27 Aug 2021 03:10AM UTC
    
    Oh my god, somehow I didn't know the origin of it, you are very, very right. My apologies, let me delete.
    
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  2. 1. midnightstreet Fri 27 Aug 2021 11:59AM UTC
      
      I’m so glad you were receptive to my comment! Everyone makes mistakes!
      
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    2. 1. Raum Fri 27 Aug 2021 03:49PM UTC
        
        For sure, thank you for the (much needed!) correction. Have a good one, friend. 🧡
        
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SarahUndomiel Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:28AM UTC

While I understand the sentiment behind this, I don't believe that you have adequately considered the consequences to longer stories. This limit will dis-proportionally effect those longer stories. Your percentages will absolutely be skewed by the majority of AO3 being made up of shorter stories that are not in need of a significant number of tags and fandoms with smaller casts of characters.
I currently have a My Hero Academia fic just under 60,000 words where I have ONLY tagged for characters who have a portion of the story written in their POV, relationships that are the focus of a chapter or share a significant scene, a few necessary warnings, and relevant fandom specific additional tags which are not redundant and absolutely tags which people within the fandom specifically search for. This has still resulted in about 90 tags on this work. I could at most trim 5 or 6 tags from this fic and still feel that it was adequately tagged in the way that people within this fandom search.
My co-author and I have ALREADY split the story we were telling into two parts and it still required this number of tags. If you run your statistics again taking into account only fics which are over 50,000 words I think that you will find the number of fics which approach, reach, or go over 75 tags across all three categories to be SIGNIFICANTLY higher, particularly for fandoms with larger casts or with multiple forms of media, each with .
I would ask that you reconsider this number and consider making the limit something more like 75 tags in each category (characters, relationships, and additional tags) rather than across all three or if the code must be set to run across all three at once, set the limit to be something more like 150 total.
Moving warnings or additional information which is typically placed in the tags to summaries and authors notes does not make the site more functional. It just makes it more difficult to search for or exclude more niche topics and punishes authors of longer fics.
True there are many authors who write stories that that are really just collections of one-shots and would be better posted as individual stories within a series, but authors of serious novels with thoughtful tags will absolutely be hurt by this.
We all know what led to this, but setting such a low number is NOT the answer. There are other options. I have a code on my site skin which compresses the tags into a 5 line scroll-able box which makes the pages easier to scroll through while still leaving all the tags available to me to read if I want them. Perhaps implementing something like this site-wide, which would ease people's frustration as they scroll, would have been a better first step rather than jumping immediately to such a drastic limit.
At the very least I urge you to reconsider the limit being this low. I suspect that many who are commenting in the affirmative are not authors or primarily write/read shorter fics.
On another note, for me personally as a reader, in many fandoms, a long fic, especially a darker one, which does not at least come close to hitting this limit or surpassing it, is not a fic which I would consider to be sufficiently tagged, and I would be very hesitant to start reading.

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1. SarahUndomiel Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:38AM UTC
  Other options which would have been better first steps than a flat tag limit:
  - Limiting the number of fandoms a crossover work can contain
  - Limiting the number of tags proportionally to chapter/word count
  Last Edited Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:43AM UTC
  
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2. 1. caeciliusinhorto Wed 25 Aug 2021 07:48AM UTC
    Neither of those suggestions are really "better first steps" for dealing with the problem, though: the first is dealing with a different problem, and the second just hits a different set of fans.
    - Limiting the number of fandoms a crossover can contain addresses a separate, if related, problem. Some of the most heavily-tagged fics don't have significant numbers of fandoms tagged. It's not clear to me that, as a rule, those fics do really need all of those tags. And which fandoms are tagged is already one of the extremely limited situations where AO3 will enforce correct tagging, so it's not as though the problem is people unnecessarily tagging unrelated fandoms. The "drabbles from 20+ fandoms collected into a single work" phenomenon is real, and I would be happy to see it go away, but IME it makes up a relatively small proportion of the "millions and millions of tags" fics. (And, frankly, I'd also like to see the "30 unconnected drabbles all in the same fandom but each with a different ship and different tags" fics go away too, which merely limiting the number of fandoms that can be tagged wouldn't do.)
    - Limiting tags proportionally to chapter count would lead to the nonsense outcome where novel-length oneshots would be allowed fewer tags than the thousand-word fics written across ten chapters. And it would give people who do want to use lots and lots of tags an incentive to split their fics into ever-smaller chapters. Sorry oneshot writers – you're getting shafted on this one.
    - Limiting tags by wordcount screws over podficcers (who, assuming the initial fic is correctly tagged, often want to use n+2 tags – the original work tags, the "podfic" tag, and one of the "podfic length: X" tags, which is not a subtag of "podfic" and therefore both are needed), and yet usually use many fewer words. Fan artists and vidders may also suffer. Also the rule would be much more complicated to explain, which isn't great.
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  2. Yellow_the_Writer Sat 28 Aug 2021 11:04PM UTC
    
    ^^^ THIS
    
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3. Elf (Elf_Herself) Wed 25 Aug 2021 07:00AM UTC
  
  You can remove individual character tags when they're part of a relationship tag - the character search will still turn them up.
  Tagging for every relationship that has a notable scene is one of the things that frustrates me as a reader. When I search for a pairing, whether it's romance or friendship, I don't want every fic in which that pairing shows up; I want fics that are about that pairing. (I get that it's not about my preferences. I'm not alone, but I understand there are plenty of others who want to see all fics where their pairing appears.)
  75 is not a low number of tags. 75 is a lot of tags to wade through at the start of a fic. It's a very large number to wade through while scrolling through search results And yes, there are tools to help with that - I have installed the skin that hides fics that have more than a certain number of fandoms or relationships - I think I have those set to 5 and 10. (I rarely bother clicking to even see the description if there are more than 10 relationships.)
  I read primarily longer fics. I download to an ereader; I often filter my searches to 50k+ words. And most of the tags are just clutter for me. I want to know if there's a key pairing, and if not, I want to know if it's got a central friendship or if it's an ensemble cast fic; I don't need every relationship in the fic mentioned in the headers. I search with additional tags turned off and I skip past them when I start reading. I've been on a heavy BNHA reading binge for a few months, and "Fic with more than a dozen relationships and more than 50 tags" means I can't tell anything at all about the fic from the tags. It means I have to basically ignore the tags entirely and try to guess from the summary alone whether I'd enjoy the fic.
  I regularly read 250k+ word darkfics that have tons of potentially-triggery content, much of which is not specifically tagged - and that works out fine. People who don't like that kind of fic see tags like "darkfic" and "extremely dark traumatic content" and pass them by, and people like me treat those tags like catnip. I don't need spoilers for every major event in the fic. I don't need to know whose friendships are going to evolve; I'll read the fic to find out.
  I don't think the policy change "punishes" longfic writers. It may make them consider their audience: who's actually looking for their works, and what search terms are those people using? They lose the ability to show up in other searches, but if those people weren't looking for that kind of fic anyway, it doesn't lose them actual readers. And it makes the whole archive easier for more people to navigate.
  
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4. 1. SarahUndomiel Wed 25 Aug 2021 07:40AM UTC
    
    I think that you've responded to just about every dissenting voice in this comment section. Clicked on your profile so I see that you're not a site mod, so you would probably be better served not trying to personally police this thread anyway - I also see that you're a former tag wrangler so nice to know that relationship tags and character tags are connected, but that does not change the fact that there are other issues at play here.
    Just because you don't want to see every relationship in the story tagged doesn't mean that others don't find it helpful. That's YOUR personal preference. My co-author and I are not writing a romance, there's barely even a hint of it. There IS no main pairing. The relationships which are tagged are all significant within the story and not just as background references. I'm aware that people who read primarily for ships are probably looking at things differently, but obviously in that case if you're only interested in the ships then I would say that no, you wouldn't be my intended audience anyway.
    It's not about being more thoughtful with tags in this case because we already think VERY carefully about which tags should be included. We're not generally "chatty" in the tags.
    Also just because YOU don't have a problem with things not being tagged in darkfic doesn't make that the case for everyone. As I mentioned, I tend to look for/exclude very niche things. Forcing authors to limit their tags does not assist in this endeavor.
    That said I really don't have to justify my opinion to you anyway. I still hold to my position that 75 is too low a number and that 100-150 would have been a better range when long fic is taken into account.
    I will not be responding to any further interaction from you. I only came here to make my displeasure about this poorly thought out decision known.
    
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  2. 1. KeroZombie Wed 25 Aug 2021 08:12AM UTC
      
      I notice a few people are going around responding to all the dissenting opinions, so I'm throwing my hat in to say I agree with you that 75 is far too low for fandoms (such as Spider-Man fandoms, MCU, BNHA) with large casts, because you can EASILY write a longfic that features them all to a significant degree, leaving absolutely no room for trigger warnings. I'm a conservative tagger, and I've already hit 50 on one of my fics. I dread to think if I wrote something on a grander scale.
      
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    2. Elf (Elf_Herself) Wed 25 Aug 2021 08:17AM UTC
      
      Found out I was mistaken - you do need to tag for characters as well as relationships to show up in searches. This is because characters & relationships are in different fields; the searches don't cross-connect. (I was a wrangler a long time ago, and the details have changed a bit.)
      Sorry about the mistake, and I do hope you can find a way to be content with the newer limits.
      
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magimagica Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:34AM UTC

This is great, thank you!

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Azdaema Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:35AM UTC

Hallelujah

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magneticpins Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:37AM UTC

thank you for all the hard work!

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Kayoi1234 Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:38AM UTC

Hey! It's the change we've all been waiting for!
Yeah, a hard limit on tags seems like a good direction to go - especially considering that there are way to make your tags more concise in the first place, or simply being able to cut down. If only 0.5% of fics use over 75 tags per individual fic, then it seems like a good direction to go. 75 is a pretty generous number already, a far cry from tumblr's 30.
Pretty good decision if I do say so myself! No more will people be forced to scroll past a wall!

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PinkAxolotl85 Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:53AM UTC

Finally death to those mega crossover oneshot collections that plague Ao3, do you had idea how fuckin disappointing it is to go 'sort by most kudo's' and having to scroll by 10 of those oneshot works because the author is either too afraid of using a series or wants the big boy numbers the fastest way possible?? Honestly who even reads them I don't think I've met one person who does anything but ignore them.

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1. stormy1x2 Wed 25 Aug 2021 03:58PM UTC
  
  *thumbs up*
  
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chamberium Wed 25 Aug 2021 06:57AM UTC

incredible - and thank you
edit: I'm wanting to emphasize for reasons - screen-reader users deserve to go through tags without sinking time into a wall of text. Not everyone can "just scroll" or interact easily with some code fix. Accessibility matters, and I'm so happy OTW is doing the work to help.

Last Edited Thu 26 Aug 2021 05:34AM UTC

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Sengachi Wed 25 Aug 2021 07:02AM UTC

Thanks for being so transparent about the rationale and numbers behind this!

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Gluckdrache Wed 25 Aug 2021 07:04AM UTC

Thank you! This is a blessing

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thenewbuzwuzz Wed 25 Aug 2021 05:28AM UTC

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