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John Lennon Interview: Rolling Stone 11/9/2019
ABOUT THIS INTERVIEW:
Journalist Jacob McGregor spoke with John Lennon in Rolling Stone Magazine’s November 9th 2019 issue. John speaks about the prelude to McCartney’s death 50 years ago in 1969. The immediate and later aftermath of his passing. And his infamous rivalry with Paul's temporary replacement, William Campbell, better known as Billy Shears. Offering some never before seen insight on the untimely death of one of the most celebrated artists in recent history.
With a brand new perspective on the final nail in the coffin for The Beatles. John Lennon speaks about his grief, and the promise to keep McCartney’s legacy alive amidst the pain his passing has given him.
-Charlotte Applewhite
The 50 Year Anniversary of Paul McCartney’s
Accident and Death: John Lennon’s Perspective
on the Matter
Article: Rolling Stone
There is John Lennon: holding a cup of coffee in one hand and an old rolled up newspaper in the other. His graying brown hair is pulled into a ponytail, and he wears a rumpled shirt as he sits across from me on an old leathery chair. Waiting for me to question him like a condemned prisoner on the electric chair. With me acting as the executioner who's about to pull the lever.
John Lennon has read the news. He's checked the date. Today is the 50th anniversary of his longtime friend and former band mate, Paul McCartney’s death. He'll have to put on a brave face, and dig through some old long buried memories to get through this interview.
The El Dorado looked as wonderful as ever as I walked up the stairs to commence my interview with Lennon. He and Yoko Ono have been living in the apartment complex ever since his failed assassination attempt in 1980. All while raising their son, Sean, and also continuing his music career and starting on his writing career. Days without Paul and the rest of The Beatles have been rough for John. The falling out and rekindling of his relationship with Yoko, the myriad of controversies he'd gotten himself into, and the failed assassination are just some of the things John has dealt with since the end of The Beatles. But it seems like now he's entered a new era of peace, and we can finally reminisce on the old days. More specifically: the unfortunate night Paul McCartney passed away.
We talked about John's relationship with Paul. The immediate and following aftermath of his death. His seemingly never ending grief and guilt after the fact. The incredibly troubled production of Let It Be. And touched on his relationship with Billy Shears during and after the final album's release.
What follows is the result of a long talk with John Lennon after an incredibly somber day. A day filled with remembrance and grief for one of the world's most influential musicians in the modern age. And a personal recount from one of the strongest and bravest people that I know.
Q: “How are you doing today?”
JOHN: "I'm doing just fine. I could be doing a little better considering the date. But overall, it hasn't affected me too much.”
Q: “How do you feel about today's date? Does it bother you at all, or do you think you can just ignore it?”
JOHN: “It feels odd to say the least. I can't believe he's really been gone for that long. It's a little bit of both on both ends. I don't keep dates like that. So whenever they come up, they catch me by surprise and crush my soul a little bit. I can go on the rest of my day without too much of a problem. But then I'll just randomly remember it halfway through, and it'll sting and bring me down a bit.”
Q: “When was the last time you saw Paul? Before the accident, I mean.”
JOHN: “The last time I saw him was at Abbey Road Studios. We were arguing, probably over something stupid like we always did at that time. I can't remember. And then he stormed out of the studio in a fit of rage. I thought it might've had something to do with the drugs he was taking, or something along those lines, but I never saw him alive again after that.”
Q: “How did you learn about Paul's death? And what was your first immediate reaction?”
JOHN: “I learned about it through a phone call Richie made in the middle of the night after it happened. I laughed. I didn't think he was being for-real. I thought he was playing a cruel prank on me, and he was waiting to pull the rug out from under my feet, as stupid as that sounds. When he told me he was being serious, I dropped the phone. I can't exactly remember what happened after that, I think I might've blocked it out, but Yoko told me I started screaming like a bloody banshee! I trashed my room, and I woke up on the floor with Yoko trying to wake me up.”
Q: “What did you want to do after that? Where did you want to go from there?”
JOHN: “Well, for one, I wanted to see him. I was still in that sort of denial that I couldn't get out of no matter what anyone said. It just wasn't fair to me that Paul should die like that. He was a much better driver than I was. He was safe with drugs, he didn't use them like I did. He was the responsible one in the group. In my eyes, Paul couldn't be dead, he shouldn't be dead. It just wouldn't be fair. I had to see it for myself, and I did.
Secondly, I wanted to disband immediately. Or- well- ‘divorce’ as I put it. I had already asked for a divorce from the band a few months prior, and we all agreed to keep it secret for the time being. But now, I just wanted to end it immediately. “Forget production of Let It Be. The Beatles aren't The Beatles without Paul!” I'd said. Of course, I was ignored, and Let It Be still came out. But I never really came around to the idea of it even after production.”
Q: “You weren't seen for months after Paul died. People were starting to suspect that you had died too. What was up with that?”
JOHN: “I mostly spent my time in bed. I didn't want to get up or do anything after. I almost missed his funeral because of that. Paul's death left a hole in my soul that, to this day, has never been filled, and will probably never be filled. He was the first person who understood me, truly understood me, and he was gone in a few minutes. I felt guilty, in a sense that it was all my fault. If I hadn't gotten into that argument with him, Paul would still be alive. If I wasn't such a prick and didn't have my head up my own ass, Paul would be here today. It nagged at me and didn't let me go. If it weren't for Yoko, there's a good chance that I would have died.”
Q: “Your relationship with McCartney is famous for being complicated. Full of a lot of good and bad moments. What do you have to say in that regard?”
JOHN: “Paul was my friend. One of the best friends I've ever had, almost like a lover of mine. I've heard people saying that we hated each other back then, but that’s bullshit. Whatever argument came between us didn't matter in the grand scheme of things. He was, and still is, my best friend. He gets to hold on to that title, even in death.”
Q: “What got you out of that months-long depression that kept you in bed?”
JOHN: “I've already said this, Yoko. Bless her soul, she had to put up with me the entire time I was a bloody mess! I can't imagine how horrible that must have been. She must've had the patience of a saint when it came to dealing with me.”
Q: “How did Paul's death affect your relationship with the rest of The Beatles? How did they hold up compared to you?”
JOHN: “There was definitely a lot more tension between us, even more so than before. I felt betrayed and even a little disgusted with them for agreeing to finish Let It Be. George specifically got under my skin. Ringo was the most openly emotional out of the three of us. He was practically holding back tears when he told me what had happened to Paul. It proved to me that he cared. George didn't react that way, at least in front us. He was calm and rational beyond belief, and that pissed me off. I thought that meant he didn't care about Paul. That this was all somehow beneath him. When in reality, George knew that screaming and crying wouldn't bring Paul back, so he didn't do either of those things. He acted as the sort-of de facto leader after Paul died. I think he knew that neither I nor Ringo were in a good state to make any decisions regarding the band back then. There had to be a level head somewhere, and if that had to be him then so be it.”
Q: “Let It Be’s production has been stated to be… troubled to say the least. Can you give us your thoughts on that?”
JOHN: “Let It Be was doomed from the start. We had started production on it before Paul died, and even then we were all itching to finish and leave. None of us got along from the jump. Then Paul died and everything was thrown into a frenzy. My self isolation had prompted the album to get delayed. And even when I came back, it became increasingly difficult to get any work done because of all our grief and the arguing that ensued because of it. That was mostly my fault, Paul's death had turned me into an insufferable little prick for a while. It just felt wrong being there without him.“
Q: Your relationship with Billy Shears is infamous for being rocky and turbulent. Can you give us your thoughts on him back then? What do you think of him today?”
JOHN: “Well, I had many reasons to dislike Billy back then, and none of them were his fault, the poor bloke. For one, he was another thing I didn't agree to. I didn't want to get someone to replace Paul, even temporarily just to finish the album. In my mind, nobody could replace him, and that holds true today. Billy is talented in his own way separate from Paul. That's actually another reason I hated him, I had to admit he was a good talent. When it was confirmed that Billy would be coming in to play, I comforted myself by saying that he'd probably be shit, and then we'd have to let him go. Then the kid finally came in and got his hands on a bass guitar. He was great as I'm sure you know, and I hated him for that. In my mind, Billy was an intruder forcing his way into something sacred. And his performance ensured that he would stay. I also hated the fact that he looked so much like Paul. I'm sure you've seen the similarities; his slightly upturned nose, his big doll-like eyes, his lashes. It felt like the universe was taunting me. Giving me someone who looked like Paul, but wasn't actually Paul. One of my biggest regrets is actually the way I treated Billy back then. I'm not exaggerating when I say that Paul's death turned me into an insufferable prick. Billy faced the brunt of it back in the day. I was just so angry and so hurt, I needed someone to take it out on, and Billy just happened to be an easy target. I don't see him all that often anymore, but we do still keep in touch from time to time over the phone. I hope he's doing well with all his future endeavors.”
Q: “You’ve spoken about wanting to retain Paul's legacy. How do you suppose you'll do that?”
JOHN: “I think I already have. Anytime I make a new song, I always go back to what we would have done together. A little bit of him is within me, always. We are one.”
Q: “Do you still miss him? 50 years after he died?”
JOHN: “Of course I do. There isn't a single day that goes by where I don't think of Paul. I still dream of him sometimes. I'll think of a funny quip and turn around to tell it to him only to realize he's not there. It hurts more on some days than others.”
Q: “If you could tell Paul one more thing what would it be?”
JOHN: “I think I would say “I love you.” One thing I mulled over while I was in isolation was Paul dying thinking that I hated him. It still keeps me up at night from time to time. I'd like the peace of mind, knowing that Paul knew that I loved him before he passed.”